Senator Jubril Martins Kuye, who became minister twice, shares his life experiences in this interview with ADEOLA BALOGUN and TUNDE AJAJA
At 72, you look very agile, what is the secret behind it?
It has been the special grace, mercy and favour of God. I can also say that lifestyle contributes to one’s longevity, so I am mindful of that. Also, I do physical exercise daily and I am careful with the kind of friends that I keep. If you keep friends who are given to alcohol, you may have the tendency to join them and before you know what is happening, you are absorbed into that culture of drinking, with or without moderation. If you drink excessively, it can affect your life. Therefore, when you mix good lifestyle with the grace of God, perhaps you would live a healthy life.
You appear very much at home with your people here in the locality, what is the attraction?
That has to do with my background, because my family is one that values community service. Then, my grandfather was a communal chief judge, appointed by the colonial masters and he was the supreme head chief in his village, who, in the ancient times, was like a king. So, there was a lot of community relations and service. So, many of his children and grandchildren took after him. It also has to do with someone’s psychological make-up, such as being comfortable in the midst of people. I derive the greatest joy when I sit and chat with my peers and people who are younger than me. So, being around my people is partly psychological and a family thing. Patriotism is also key, and as a Muslim, the love of one’s community is part of one’s faith.
Those days, when you were asked what you would like to become in life, what did you tell your teachers?
I told my teachers I wanted to be a wealthy man. My ambition then was simply to be rich and comfortable. Possibly, one of the things that influenced my ambition was that the richest man in Ijebu at that time, Chief Adeola Odutola, was very close to my family. He served my grandfather as the court registrar, and he was very close to my family. Later, he became wealthy and anytime he came to Ago Iwoye, he would call my father his own son and my grandfather his own father. We were that close and I was also given one of his names, Odutola. Maybe those things influenced my ambition to be just a wealthy man. And, in those days, it was fashionable to have bicycle and write all sorts of names and aspirations at the back. So, I had one and I wrote on it, ‘all for money.’
In those days, doctors, lawyers and engineers were like the most influential professionals, why didn’t you aim to be one of them since all you wanted was money?
Well, I have always loved history, but I ended up studying sociology at the University of Ibadan. In those days, you had to carry three of your subjects to the final year, so I read economics, political science and sociology, which was my major course to the final year. That allowed us to claim more than one course. So, I see myself as a sociologist and an economist. But I found sociology more complex than economics. Later, I moved full blown into economics when I went to study Business and Investment Studies at Harvard Business School. Basically, I loved economics, maybe because I’m an Ijebu man and my mother was a trader.
When you came out of the university, you would most likely set your mind on a certain job. Was it easier to choose the kind of job to do or were the opportunities there for you to pick?
Jobs were not apples that one could easily pluck off the tree. At that time too, people were complaining of lack of jobs but not as bad as it is now. If you wanted civil service job, you would get one easily. Those at the administrative level were Britons and, it was the time Nigerians were taking over the leadership of government agencies, between 1960s and 1970s. There were vacancies in the public service, so if you wanted public service or teaching job, you could get one fairly easily, but if you wanted the so-called high brow jobs, you had to struggle to get it. I was fortunate to get fine offers. I used the Cocoa Marketing Board scholarship to study sociology, and as soon as I finished, they offered me a job to be the produce examiner or produce Inspector. Then, I got a UAC job and Unilever job. So I settled for Unilever because it offered me more money and don’t forget, my ambition was to be a rich man. My class of degree was good and they wanted me to do my PhD in any of the disciplines related to sociology. But as soon as I got the job at Unilever which offered me big money, I opted for the job rather than going for PhD.
At what point did you embrace politics?
When I worked for Unilever for about six to eight years, I worked with another multinational company for two years before I ventured into private practice. I built my factories, one was paper-making and the other was in soaps and hygiene products, and I felt very comfortable because the money was there, so I felt the best thing was to join political service so as to be able to work with the political class to improve the lot of many people. My motivation in politics was to use it as a pedestal upon which one could help more people, be a part of the policy-formulating class and see how life could get better for the people. So, it was because I was successful success in business that I thought I could reach out to more people through politics. I saw the face of poverty when people were rushing into my factory to seek for job, and, of course, I couldn’t employ everybody. So, I felt I should join politics to contribute to governance and explore ways of making life better for the people.
Which position did you have in mind when you joined politics?
One thing about politics is that every politician is an incurable optimist. They always aim high, partly because they think the higher you go, the greater your capacity and influence to shape policies. That’s why they are always aiming for top positions. In my own case, I wanted to be president and Senator Biyi Durojaye was also contesting for the same office. So, both of us wanted to succeed Babangida when he was trying to transit power to civilians, but later on, I became a little bit more sensible. I tried to temper my ambition. So, in deference to Senator Durojaye who, obviously, was my elder in age, my senior in matters of education and someone who had risen to the top of his career, I decided to allow him to run for the presidency, while I settled for senatorial position. That was how I became a senator. He could have been a very stiff competitor for me but the other people who contested with me were those I found easier to beat. Most of the things that happened to me were because God wanted them that way. He became a senator after me.
It seems you have now retired from politics; is that right?
Not really. A lot of gladiators came to power and instead of embracing consensus and unity of purpose, they try to create pockets of influence and so you begin to hear different kinds of groups. Hence, politics became more divisive, less coercive, more turbulent and less sane. The kind of influence that comes with experience would not come into play because a lot of people who could not even win the leadership of their extended family in a big family contest, would want to be state governor and they would not listen to advice. In the case of Ogun State, we moved from having two groups to having four groups. So, I just chuckled and smiled to myself because I know that as long as politicians remain disunited and divisive, none of them is taking his or her ambition to any level. That is why it seems as if I’m on a low key. They gave me a very interesting name; ‘leading leader,’ which means the overall political leader. But the real and official leader is the governor. However, I have to lie low because even if the leading leader should work hard to actualise victory for his party, he would be a serial loser as long as the players are in four different groups. None of the groups would go anywhere with that arrangement and if I get myself strongly associated, I would be the leading leader of losers. So I have to lie low.
Chief Olusegun Obasanjo once said he suspended his participation in the activities of the PDP, particularly when South West PDP was handed over to Kashamu Buruji. What do you think would be the impact of such a decision?
It is an issue that I am reluctant to comment on, because I served two of the three post-military presidents in Nigeria. Chief Obasanjo is my political mentor and when I was minister of state for finance, he directly chose me. When I was minister the second time, he influenced my appointment, although I was chosen by President Jonathan, I saw his hand of influence, so I am reluctant to comment on any matter affecting Chief Obasanjo.
We learnt that it was a contract that caused the division between you and the former Governor of Ogun State, Otunba Gbenga Daniel?
On my honour as a Muslim, contract did not cause any problem between Otunba Gbenga Daniel and myself. He did not offer me any contract whatsoever; he made me no offer and I did not accept any contract. If anybody has any proof that I got a contract, either in my name or in any other name that could be connected to me, let them please feel free to put the facts on the table for people to see. We ran into crisis in the normal course of political affairs, and we have since resolved the crisis. I’m not even prepared to go into the nitty gritty of it all. We put everything down to the work of Satan. I see him as my junior brother and he sees me as an elder brother or even a father, and our relationship today is as cordial as anything can be.
Is it true that the conflict between you and the former governor Gbenga Daniel cost you your post as minister?
No. My first term as the minister of state for finance was great and beautiful. I became acting minister of finance without minister of state when my senior minister, from whom I learnt a lot, Mallam Adamu Ciroma, had an accident, and because of the way he had inducted me into administration of finance at that federal level, I found it easy to cope. Maybe it was the way I performed that informed Chief Obasanjo to influence my becoming a minister the second time. The second time, we served out President Yar’Adua’s term and everybody was asked to go. I made history as the first Ijebu man to be minister two times. So, there was no question of Daniel truncating anything. Though, he tried to organise demonstrators against me during my confirmation at the Senate, that was in the middle of the crisis, but as a former senator, they didn’t even allow me to speak, they told me to take a bow and go. I had to appeal to the Senate President to allow me to speak for two minutes, which he did, and I said I wanted unity in Ogun State, and that was all I said in two minutes. Governor Daniel did that in the content of the crisis, but he didn’t influence my tenure.
You wrote a book on the 500 years of Ago Iwoye, even though you are not a trained historian, how did you conceive the idea?
I trained as a sociologist and economist, but my passion has always been history. If I were to relive my youthful years, I would go back and read history, but now, I’m too old to go back to the university to read history. The most important reason for the book was to influence my generation and the future generations to emulate the labour of our heroes past and to give of their best in the service of Ago Iwoye. The book has tremendous lessons about what our past heroes did.
Since you wanted to be a wealthy man, even as a young boy then, would you say you are at a preferred destination now?
In terms of politics and wealth, my ambition is not going anywhere again. The joy I have is that I see myself as an upper middle class Nigerian. Around me, even in my own community, I have brothers and sisters who are wealthier than I am and that gives me special joy. I have realised my childhood ambition of being wealthy, but if I do sociology of classification of wealthy people, I will say I am in the upper middle class, I won’t say I’m up there. Even within my town here, I have people who are above the upper middle class who are above me in real wealthy class. However, I still believe that God has answered my prayers.
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