In this engaging encounter, Wale Adenuga (MFR), Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Wale Adenuga Productions Limited shares some of his experiences and success secrets with Ademola Olonilua and Eric Dumo

You were born into a privileged family, how was it growing up?

I was born around Ile Ife and had my primary education around that place and from there I went to secondary school at Ibadan. We used to do Higher School Certificate in those days and so I went to King’s College in Lagos before entering the University of Lagos in 1971 and finished in 1974. I did my youth service in the then Bendel State and got married in 1975. That was the end of the childhood and I became a man.

You studied Business Administration while at the University of Lagos but soon became a celebrated cartoonist on campus, how did you do this?

That is where talent comes in. I discovered my talent as early as when I was five. I realised I could draw very well, act and also sing because I really love music. At that early age when I was growing up around Gbogan/Ile Ife area, I was already good at drawing without any form of training. We used to watch the likes of Ogunde, Ogunmola and others who were always on tour with their drama crew. After watching these guys, I would come home and make drawings of what I had seen. That was how it started. Throughout my secondary school days, I was drawing and so by the time I got into the university, it wasn’t new to me anymore. I was drawing cartoons for two of the biggest campus magazines then and that was it. After graduation I decided to continue with publishing. We thank God everything turned out well.

But was it your childhood dream to turn cartooning into your profession when you grow up?

No! Even up till my secondary school days I didn’t know what the future held for me in the area of drawing, acting and music because as far back as when I was in form four, I already formed a school band and so I was active in these three areas. So, I was just doing my thing not planning to be in any one full time. These things were innate in me. I grew up with them and never knew how they got into me today.

How did you come up with the concept of ‘Ikebe Super’?

I was engaged in the business of publishing right from inside the campus. And so the interest after graduation became very profound. I became really hungry to continue with that and so during my youth service I was collecting jokes and cartoons and by 1976, I launched Ikebe Super magazine.

Coming from a privileged background, your parents must have wanted you to do something else other than the path you chose?

My father wanted me to run his tobacco business. He wanted me to be the permanent manager. I joined the company immediately after my youth service. My elder brother who was the general manager at the time had gone for further studies and so I took up the leadership of the business but I was gathering materials for the magazine. So, I was still working part-time with my dad when I started the magazine in 1976. The first edition was about 5, 000 copies and it sold out like wild fire. The second edition came to Lagos and that was when it dawned on me that if I really wanted to face this squarely, I had to move to Lagos. After working for about two years with my father, I left for Lagos.

So, how did your father take that?

He didn’t take it lightly. It was as if I was distorting his plans. He was not too optimistic that I would succeed because I remember him telling my mother that her son was about embarking on a suicide journey. He said, ‘Your son is going to Lagos to go and do magazine, can he compete with Daily Times, can he compete with Drum magazine?’ These were some of the words my father said to my mother. That I was going to shame myself because he was not too optimistic that I would succeed. My mother was crying that I should not go. I said, ‘Look, let me go and try my luck. I have tried this magazine on campus and it sold. Allow me to try this with the larger society and see what happens.’ That was how I set out on this journey.

And when things took a turn-around, what was your father’s reaction?

By 1978, money started rolling in. My father also owned an insurance agency that insured vehicles. I called him one day and said I wanted to insure two vehicles, he was surprised and invited me over. I explained some of the prospects of the business to him and he became very impressed so much so that he gave me one of his buses immediately to use for circulation.

At a point ‘Ikebe Super’ was printing as many as 500, 000 copies per edition, how did you do this?

In fact we were printing around 600, 000 copies per edition because it was a monthly magazine at that time. It was a unique idea and so competition was not an issue because when I was selling 200, 000 copies, others were not even selling 10, 000. And so the big corporations started competing with ‘Ikebe Super.’

I remember Concord Press owned by late Chief MKO Abiola started one cartoon magazine headed by one Gbenro Abioye but it didn’t last three months. And then Vanguard too came up with its own idea. In fact what the company did was very funny. My main cartoonist, Morakinyo, I bought him a new Passat car and he was to repay part of the cost from his salary but after four weeks, two gentlemen came from Vanguard to tell me that they were taking him away. I was laughing inside me because I thought that would not be possible because the guy was servicing the car loan. Before I could say anything further, the two men told me that they knew everything and that they were there with a cheque to cover the loan and three months in lieu of notice.

But what people did not know was that the ‘Ikebe Super’ cartoonists were not the ones generating the stories. I was the one sourcing the stories and they were just illustrating them. Vanguard did not know this and that was why they came for him.

It is notable that for the first four years of Ikebe Super magazine I was the only one drawing everything and sourcing the stories as well before I employed other cartoonists. When Vanguard took Morakinyo away, I continued drawing them until I got two others to do the job.

Competitors came in every form but I did not allow that to deter me. I have a simple strategy for fighting competition and that is to be the first to buy a competitor’s product and study it to know its strengths and weaknesses. I don’t fight competition with juju, I only study their products to know how to improve mine.

After ‘Ikebe Super’, you introduced other magazines like ‘Binta’ and ‘Super Story’ what was the reason behind this?

My own idea of business is about filling vacuums. When I see a vacuum, I want to fill it. When ‘Ikebe Super’ became successful, I started having some serious stories that could not be classified as comedy. I thought these stories should not come under comic but under another title so that people would know that one for serious stories. That was how ‘Super Story’ came into being two years after ‘Ikebe Super’.

Were the stories as a result of the things you saw around you at the time?

God never gives you an assignment without supporting you with the factors of production. If for instance he gave you a talent for music, everything around you would suddenly become an inspiration. It is at that time that you would begin to take note of how birds sing. For that person whose talent is to do music, even birds would inspire and give him ideas because the entire focus is on music.

I have a good sense of humour and so my interest is in reading jokes. The first time I went to London, I went to the biggest bookshop there and came back with three suitcases of books on jokes. I did not buy a single shirt or wrist watch. Till today if I travel abroad, I still invest in books to broaden my knowledge on jokes and humour. Sometimes I am sleeping and I get inspiration on jokes.

What do we mean by creativity? The only true creator is God. But then for those of us that are creative, some of these experiences give you an idea that can be very useful.

Your famous sign off ‘We are pencils in the hands of the creator’, suggest you could be a very spiritual person, is this the case?

Every human is 90 per cent spiritual and 10 per cent physical. That statement means a whole lot. If a carpenter uses a hammer to make a beautiful furniture, who do you praise? The carpenter or the hammer? The carpenter, of course because the brain of the hammer is in the carpenter’s hands.

It is the same with the pencil. If an artist holds a pencil and draws something very beautiful, who do you praise between the pencil and artist? The artist, no doubt. So, Wale Adenuga is a pencil, the person holding me and using me to draw all these things is God himself. That’s why I always project my products and not myself. If I am passing on the streets people don’t even know me, I like it that way.

The most valuable part of a pencil is the black thing inside which is surrounded by worthless wood. So, every human should understand that their most valuable asset is the brain, what we put on to cover the brain is immaterial. If your brain is solid and very productive, you can wear ordinary slippers and trousers and people will respect you. People who don’t have brains are the ones going for designer shoes and shirts just to cover up their lack of brains.

Like pencil, every human has the opportunity to use an eraser to clean off those parts that are bad and make them good. So, the pencil is a very valuable and unique creation.

We heard you started off with only N600, how true is this?

That amount might be too small, let’s assume it was a little higher. I left the university in 1974 and finished my youth service in 1975 and during the youth service we were paid some stipends and I was getting jobs at that time. But don’t forget that N600 had great value at that time. When I started Ikebe Super magazine in 1976, I took N10, 000 to Volkswagen of Nigeria and bought three cars and collected change.

What I am saying in essence is that I started with the little money I was able to save during my youth service and the money I got from the jobs I did for people.

I met a friend of mine called Kunle, I told him I wanted to go into magazine production because he was into printing. He asked how many copies I wanted to do and I told him we should just start with 5,000 copies. I gave him money to buy paper and start printing. A week later, he came with a sample of the artwork, I would correct and he would go back to effect the corrections. Then I gave him the balance and asked him to go and bring the 5,000 copies. First month, second month, third month, I didn’t see Kunle again. I started looking for him. I went to the press he was using in Ibadan owned by Areoye Oyebola. When I got there, I introduced myself and they told me that Kunle was a rogue and that he had duped a lot of people. I asked for the magazine he was printing and they told me that I should not mind him, that it was only one copy he was printing and not 5, 000 copies that I had paid him for. Kunle had disappeared with the money and I started crying. It was the owner of the press, Oyebola, who saw me, asked what the matter was and I narrated everything to him. He pitied me and said I should go and find money to buy paper and that he would be printing for me on credit, that as I was selling the magazine, I would be paying him. That was how I eventually started.

What were the other challenges you faced along the line?

Challenges are everyday experience. There are four major factors of production when you are in business. You have to deal with man, money, machine and materials. Out of these four, man is the most terrible and as long as you are dealing with man you should expect challenges at any time. It is man that poses the greatest challenge in any business because you cannot do everything alone, you have to employ people to work with you and out of every 12 there is a Judas.

What informed your switch from print to broadcast, precisely television?

As long as there is demand for your products, you must always look for a way to package it to suit the market. At a point when we were running the magazine, newsprint became very scarce and prices were going up. After a while, we decided to reach out to the people through other means. Africa Independent Television came in 1997 and so we decided to go into television.

Before 1997, Nigeria already had popular TV series and as far back as 1984 I produced a popular English comedy called Papa Ajasco.

Super Story is still a big hit, looking back and seeing all the success this has brought your way, how do you feel?

I feel fulfilled and happy. I feel there is room for improvement. We are praying for more strength and creativity to remain on top of this game.

At what point did you feel it was time to diversify your interest?

One thing led to another. We started Ikebe Super as a pure comic and later there was need for us to produce a serious one and so we shifted to Super Story. But we realised children were being left out, so we decided to do something for them and that was how Binta magazine started.

And the school?

Well, my wife has always been interested in school business. We met during studies at the University of Lagos. We pooled resources together and that was how the school came about.

You met your wife in the university and later married her, what really endeared her to you?

I would say it is compatibility. I was an artist in every sense and it could be difficult living with one because of our ideals and mindset. When I met my wife, we started interacting by reserving seats for each other and asking after ourselves. People would ask me in school sometimes where my wife was and I would say she was fine.

There were times I would want to impress her by asking that we go and eat in an expensive place but she would refuse and prefer that we go to the normal places where prices were also normal. These were things that really made me go for her. I am glad that I have her because she respects me and I respect her too. We are one soul in two bodies.

You also own WAP TV which is airing on pay TV, in the near future are we likely to see a radio station coming from your stable as well?

Five years ago, I had no dream of owning a television station. It had a chance meeting with some people in Abuja who told me they had been enjoying my stories and that I should be thinking of having a TV station. I told them if I had the license, I wouldn’t mind. One of them asked if I had ever tried, I said no. He said I should try and that was how I applied and got the license to start WAP TV. I didn’t apply for radio because I love pictures and so it was TV that really caught my fancy.

As much as you have enjoyed success, there definitely must have been criticisms, which particular one really rattled you?

No human is perfect. The only one that got to me in the past was the criticism that Ikebe Super magazine was immoral. People who felt that way mistook our product for other people’s magazine that was also very popular at the time, that was Lolly and it was just showing sex. It was so similar in outlook to Ikebe Super and a lot of people believed I was the publisher of that magazine. I was not. The publisher was one young guy in Ibadan.

If you look at Ikebe Super magazine from the first edition to the last, you won’t find anything related to sex in it. Another thing that informed this category of criticism was the page 3 girl. This was a universal phenomenon in publishing and not peculiar to Ikebe Super. That was the only incident that almost fetched my business bad image. Apart from that, I have managed to stay out of crisis and scandal through the help of God Almighty. I am not a person who attends social gatherings, I live a quiet life.

When the first cast of Papa Ajasco was changed, there were insinuations that the reason behind that might have been as a result of some of them going for a show without your knowledge, how true is this?

Papa Ajasco’s copyright resides in WAP. We raised this group and packaged them and brought them to limelight. There was a clear order forbidding them from cutting shows without the approval of the company. But they were in the habit of doing shows behind us. They did this several times but we pardoned them. However, there was this time somebody phoned from Benin and accused us of being in town without visiting because my wife is from Edo State. I told the person we were not in town but the person insisted that he just saw Papa Ajasco at a show in Benin. I was shocked. We investigated and found out it was true. I told the group that I already got wind that they were cutting a show in Benin and that they shouldn’t bother coming back. That was the end.

Pa James was not involved, they invited him but he didn’t go with them. The former Miss Pepeiye was also not involved. Later we took Papa Ajasco back after much pressure.

Away from all the wonderful stories we see on television through some of your productions, who is Wale Adenuga?

Well, since you have not read of any quarrel between me and my wife, it’s been a happy marriage. We have five lovely children who are all involved in family business. The second girl is the Managing Director of PEFTI right from inception; the first boy is the MD of WAP, while Wole, the second boy, is the MD of WAP TV.

I think having a successful and happy family is divine. We all pray for this and I think I have been blessed.

So, in essence you are confident that if tomorrow you are no longer around they can carry on with your legacy?

Even before leaving the scene, they are the ones doing everything you see today. They only call me when they want to get some clarifications. The succession is already ensured through God.

If you look back at life, what would you like to change about your journey so far?

I have enjoyed the ride. In all my endeavours, I have always been on top of my game. Throughout my primary and secondary education, I was at the top of my class. While at the university, I was at the top, my business has been on top, my marriage is on top and my children are also at the top. What else can I ask for? I think I am satisfied with my journey so far and I can only ask for long life and good health.

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The Lisa of Ondo Kingdom, Chief Simeon Oguntimehin, has just clocked 80 years. He is former president, Institute of Chartered Accountants of Nigeria and a former member of the Independent Corrupt Practices and Other Related Offences Commission. He shares some of his experiences in this interview with GBENRO ADEOYE and TUNDE AJAJA

How was growing up?

Growing up was not easy and it was very challenging. I was eight years and eight months old when I lost my father and I was in Standard One for barely six months then. That was in 1944. In those days, you had to go to infant school and if you were brilliant, you could complete that within three years before going to primary school. So I only managed to complete the infant school and moved to primary school. My father got sick and passed on. We were two from my mother, and she said since my father had already put us in the (education) system, she would do whatever was needed to continue to make sure that we were not withdrawn from school. My mother and grandmother used to sell gari to send us to school because they were resolute. I continued like that till I finished primary school in 1949 and I took the entrance exam into Ondo Boys High School, which was very competitive. It was the only major secondary school in the entire Ondo Province, including Ekiti. We were about 850 that sat for the exam and there was space for only 50 to be admitted. For me to be one of those admitted was virtually mission impossible. But beyond getting admission, there were only four scholarships available and I won one, otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to pay my school fees, because there was no money. At that time, the tuition fee was about £6 which was a lot of money. So I had to contest again for the scholarship, and in those days, they used to call it Ondo Native Administration, which comprised Ondo township, Ile-Oluji and Oke-Igbo and the four slots had to be shared among them, with two slots for Ondo. Even though I had passed the exam, getting the scholarship was crucial and there was only four available with two for Ondo where I come from. By God’s grace. I got it, and I didn’t know I was a Native Administration scholar until the following year. Somebody promised to assist me, unfortunately, he didn’t, but it was based on that promise of assistance that the principal allowed me to start school in 1950. When the promise didn’t come through, I don’t know how the principal helped me and put me there. So that year we had five scholarships, instead of four.

Why did you choose to be an accountant?

I chose to be an accountant based on the advice of a cousin of mine in 1952. He also wanted to go to Ondo Boys High School but he couldn’t because of financial constraints and he didn’t have scholarship, so he went to Lagos. When he got to Lagos, he was doing book keeping, accounting and so on and got to the Royal Society of Arts. So by the time I was earning £150, he was already on £240 with his Standard Six. So, he said, if I did well, accountancy was a profession of the future. There were very few people in the field at that time. Only people like Akintola Williams, Osundero, Cardoso and Coker, who became the Chief Treasurer. They were easily identified and of course countable.

Why did you choose to go abroad?

When I started work, I was told that my department, which was the Federal Surveys Office, did not qualify me to do accountancy that I wanted. So I resigned from the surveys department and went to the Accountant General’s department. At that time, Chief Festus Okotie-Eboh was the minister of finance. When I got there, I applied to England and I was accepted because I was in the AG’s department doing accounting related work. In those days, it was difficult to get a British passport, they called us British Protected Persons. Also, at that time, the western government made a rule that anybody willing to go to England would pay £350 as a deposit before getting a passport to go. That amount was more than my two years gross salary because I was on £156 per annum. Even if I didn’t spend anything out of the money, there was no way I could raise the money as deposit, because it still wouldn’t be up to the amount. But I trusted in God. I got the passport and I went to England without making any deposit because I didn’t have it.

How did you manage to go since you didn’t have£350?

I applied and I had sponsors and every other thing needed. The letter I was to go with said they would try me for six months, and if they discovered that I was not fit to do accountancy, they would repatriate me. That was the tough condition under which I left. When I got to England, within the first six months, I had done very well in their own reckoning. They even said I should do Royal of Arts, Book Keeping and Accounts. I did everything, even though it had nothing to do with my qualification. When the result was released, they said I had first class honours. At that level, if I came back to Nigeria, I was to earn £240 as against my former £156 within six months. After 18 months, I did the intermediate and as God would want it, I passed. At that time, with that intermediate, if I returned to Nigeria, I was already a senior civil servant to earn £720. So I did the finals and completed everything within four years. So, they waived my articleship since I did marvellously well. They organised a press conference on me in Oxford saying my performance was rare and that probably I used black juju to get things done. I said no, that I worked hard and God answered my prayer. When you put all these things together, it affirms the fact that I am a man of destiny.

You worked for a single firm for 33 years till you retired what informed this decision?

The owner of the firm, Dr. Ososanya, was the one who recruited me from London. In fact, at that time, when I passed the final section one, he wanted me to come back because he needed a young man to assist him. But I told him I couldn’t come, he even sent me £50 for my upkeep. When I got home, there was pressure and people wanted me to go to many other places to work. As a chief accountant, I would have been earning £2,496. But I had to stay with the man who recruited me from London, and he said if I did well two years after working with him, he would admit me as a partner. He fulfilled the promise. So I had no cause whatsoever to leave. That was why I didn’t go and I was there for 33 years in spite of all the temptations. It’s rare too. I was a partner for almost 17 years and when he retired, I became the senior partner. When I was leaving, l left about 14 partners in the firm. It was the largest practising firm in Western Nigeria, competing seriously with those in Lagos.

You were the first chairman of the Ondo State Public Accounts Committee when the state was newly created. Why did you choose to work for free?

I decided to work for free because it was my profession and I was ready to contribute. In fact, I wasn’t staying in their hotel in Akure. After our meetings, I would go back to my town in Ondo. I didn’t take any money from them, not even for transport.

Was it that the job position had no payment attached or you chose not to collect it?

I chose not to collect it. All the other members were being paid but I didn’t want it. I was the treasurer of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Nigeria for 10 years and I was coming from Ibadan to Lagos. Sometimes, I would still be there till 11pm, but I never collected any money from ICAN for all my services. I just felt if my profession gave me the honour to assist anyone in any way, I was ready. So I never collected a kobo. The records are there in ICAN. In Ondo too, when I was submitting my report to Chief Ajasin, because I was appointed by a soldier, he felt bad and said he wished I could continue. I have never in my life given or accepted bribe from anybody. Even as an ICAN executive, I didn’t know any contractor. Even when I needed British passport many years back and people said I had to ‘settle’ some people, I refused, and I still got what I wanted.

All those things paid off eventually. By the time they were thinking of who was to go to the Independent Corrupt Practices and Other Related Offences Commission, I was recommended. At that time, there were about 30,000 accountants in Nigeria and the position was just for a chartered accountant among the members, so no one would have recommended me if not that they knew that I don’t compromise my integrity. I was recommended to the former President, Olusegun Obasanjo. He sent me for screening and I told the legislators that I had a lot to do and that I was ready if it was a part time job, I didn’t know it would be a full time job. I got the letter from President Umaru Yar’ Adua’s government, because it was during the transition period. Obasanjo facilitated it but it was Yar’ Adua’s government that sent me the letter. It was then that I knew that I had to be in Abuja for four years. After that, the incumbent President insisted that I had to continue but I said no, that I wanted to go back home.

Many people would have loved to continue with another term. Why did you decline?

I didn’t want to do another four years. To do another four years meant I would be 82 years old by the time I would leave. Not only that, I was yet to see government’s real commitment to fighting corruption.

When you were there, were you satisfied with the way the ICPC was doing its job because a lot of people felt it was not doing enough compared to the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission?

That is where they could be wrong because some people don’t know the difference between ICPC and EFCC. ICPC was the first to be established by Obasanjo when he got there and the bill was the first to go to parliament under Obasanjo. When it became law, there were rules and regulations on what it should do and it was principally channelled towards public officers, like contract scam, etc. So, we were principally to eliminate or reduce corruption. It’s unlike EFCC. It was when the then Minister of State for Finance, Mrs. Nenadi Usman, said most of the money given to the governors usually found their ways to England that the EFCC was set up four years later to monitor money laundering, fraud, not corruption. In our own case, we cannot prosecute unless a case is reported to us or there is a complaint. Somebody has to report. Our law doesn’t allow us to go after people until they are reported, unlike EFCC that can arrest people based on allegations. Our own case ends as soon as we get to court. So, whatever decision the judge makes has nothing to do with us again. Sometimes we appeal. And if it is one of them (government officials), if it touches them, they would say you want to embarrass the government.

You said you were not satisfied with the way government was fighting corruption. What made you say that?

We didn’t have sufficient money to investigate cases. And even when we conclude the investigation, which could take a lot of time, when we get to court, where our law prescribes seven years, the judge might say six months. Then, they came with this plea bargaining. It is just terrible. Someone would steal a goat, they would send the person to jail, then someone we have proved to have committed a fraudulent act, they would say plea bargaining and the person would go free on flimsy excuse. It’s not right.

Is it a problem with the judiciary or who do we blame?

Well, the government would say the judiciary is independent and that you can’t do anything about it, so if the court decides to set anybody free, what can anyone do? Even when you appeal, it goes on and on. An example is the one whom your judge said had no case to answer but was jailed in England. He confessed and he was jailed.

As a renowned taxation practitioner, what is your assessment of the taxation system in Nigeria, more so that people complain about multiple taxation from time to time?

The complaint is there, especially when they start harassing people. There are multiple taxations but the Federal Government has been trying to fuse everything together because the tax law is there. You are supposed to pay tax where you are resident. For example, in Abuja and Nasarawa State, there are people working in Abuja who live in Nasarawa. While Nasarawa would want to collect tax from its residents, P.A.Y.E. must have been deducted where the person works in Abuja. Apart from that, Value Added Tax is there, which is very effective because it is deducted from the source, just like P.A.Y.E. At times, you find nuisance value. In England and some other civilised countries, local governments live on the rates they collect on houses, but here, local governments live on whatever they collect from Abuja, so they are not serious. Where they could have got money, they don’t take it seriously, inasmuch as money is coming from Abuja. There is no reason why they should not access rates locally on properties, but instead of that they rely only on Abuja to bring money. It’s not right.

Your title, Lisa Fiwagboye, what does it mean?

The position of Lisa is next in rank to Osemawe of Ondo (King), it’s the highest chieftaincy title in the kingdom. He’s like the prime minister, the one that the common man can see every day. According to the letter that they gave me, I got the title because of my character and contribution to the community and the nation as a whole, which means ‘iwa’ (character), not because of money or anything. I was given this honour among the six people that contested.

You clocked 80 a few days ago, but you don’t look that old. What is the secret?

Some people met me at a meeting recently and said I gave them the impression that I had delegated my son to represent me. I told them I was the one present both in the picture they saw and my real self. We thank God for good health. I restrict myself to the one wife that I have had over 52 years ago. In fact, we can say 62 years because we were boyfriend and girlfriend for 10 years even when I was still in school. I don’t mess around, I don’t go about looking for women. I don’t even have time for it. You won’t believe it if I tell you that I don’t sleep until 1am everyday because there are always things to do. Although, I don’t wake up early unless I have something to do, I don’t attend church at 7:00am. I have to sleep very well and maybe listen to the radio. I don’t drink, womanise, I eat little or nothing.

Couples find it difficult to stay together these days, what is your secret?

Compatibility is the first thing in marriage. If you are not compatible with your partner, there is no way you can go to that length. But if there is compatibility and there is understanding and love, and you could see that all the children between you are all doing very well, you have no cause to complain. You just feel that this is a chosen woman for you, so you don’t have cause to fight. Some people also say my wife looks like she’s 40 but she’s 77. I stopped her after our fourth child. There were almost six years gap between my fourth and fifth child. But if she had wanted to have nine children, she could have. So, why would I look at other women or have children outside? What would be my justification, apart from the fact that I have no time for such things?

Why did your courtship take 10 years?

Because I wasn’t around. I knew her in 1952 because we were living in the same street. I left Ondo for Lagos in 1954 to complete my education. I was there for about three years before I went to England. I was in England for four years, so, it was the second year that I came back that I married her. I came back in September 1961 and I married her in August 1962. And all along, there was no news that she messed up herself or any such thing. She was already working in a bank when I came back. And immediately I arrived Ondo, I went to Ado-Ekiti to see her.

Can you recall how you met her, what transpired and what the attraction was?

We were living in the same area and we were both in school. I was in Class Three, but as every woman would do, when you ask to marry them, they will say you don’t know what you are saying. But I felt she was the person I would marry and eventually it happened. When my cousin was coming back from England, the first assignment I gave him was to go to Ondo and find out about her to know if she was still with us, and I was told that everything was okay, even though we were communicating, which strengthened my faith.

What major differences have you noticed while growing up in Nigeria and now in terms of societal values?

Money has become a master to many people, there is no longer integrity, because people have thrown that into the wind, which is our major problem. Look at politics today, they would tell you that to be a local councillor; you need fortune, let alone higher offices. It’s because they don’t have conscience. Basically, the issues are poverty and illiteracy. So, everything is now about money. It wasn’t like this in those days. Once we get our priorities right and we realise that money is not everything, we will be fine. The most paid job in Nigeria now is politics, then Pentecostal churches. Everybody wants to start a church and most of these things are caused by poverty and illiteracy. I have never received any money outside my legitimate income and I thank God that I’m not worse for it.

For how many years would you wish to live? 90? 100? 120?

It’s God that decides that. Even the Bible says 70 years so all I’m enjoying now is bonus. So it depends on what bonus God decides to give me. Some will say that after all, it was 120 years before it was cut down to 70 years. But since it has been established at 70 years, anything above that is bonus. That is the way I look at it. What is most important whether you are 70, 80 or 90 is to live comfortably and in good health. There is no use in saying you are going to 120 and from age 90, you are bedridden. What is the use of counting years when you’re not active or seen anywhere? It’s no use. So if it’s 90 or whatever, what is important is to live in good health and happiness. What is the use of life if those that you expect to succeed you are preceding you?

Looking back now that you’re celebrating 80 years of age, is there anything you would have loved to do differently?

I don’t believe there is anything that I could have done differently. There is no way that I could have engaged in bribery, there is no way I could have had two wives. What for? I mean nothing justifies it and as I said earlier on, if I do it, God will even punish me.

You are known to be a philanthropist, why did you choose this path?

The first thing that prompted me, I told you earlier on that when I took entrance to Ondo Boys High School, we were over 850 and there was chance for only 50 to go in and for only four to win scholarship. How did I manage to get in? So having got the opportunity, I decided to have a scholarship. I named the scholarship after my father. If that man who died at the age of about 36 had the vision then that he would put this boy (me) in school, so when I was 70, I decided to establish that scholarship. We’re doing the 11th series by next week. I just felt the way the Almighty God has channelled my life and given me the opportunity to get here, I should be able to do something better than what my father did and I didn’t stop with scholarship. Whatever little I have, I give and there is a saying that there are three major things in life that can make you comfortable. One is if you don’t have a court case; two, you are not a debtor; and the third one is good health. That is, if you don’t have to be living in the hospital. In my 80 years, I’ve never been hospitalised. Then you should be thankful to God. I ‘m not saying I don’t borrow money, I borrow from banks to prosecute my projects but I pay back, so technically I’m not a debtor.

There is a general opinion that accountants are usually stingy, how can that be reconciled with your philanthropic gestures?

When they say stingy, an accountant will not spend his money without a good reason because he knows how difficult it was before he got it. So he would not just spend the money recklessly without knowing the purpose for which it is being spent. It is not like he’s stingy.

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It was obvious that Mrs. Lydia Adeyemi was old but she did not look anything 100 as she sauntered across the room to meet our correspondents. She had a steady gait and her voice was audible. In this interview with GBENRO ADEOYE and TUNDE AJAJA, she speaks about her life and what she remembered of the last century.

Many people would wish to clock 100 years like you, how does it feel?

Only God can give the power to live long because it is beyond human power. No man has total control over his life or the power to decide how long he wants to live. It is only what God says over someone’s life that would come to pass. So, I give God the glory because it is beyond me.

Even at 100, you still look agile, what do you do differently?

I eat light food in the morning and a heavier one in the night. I eat pounded yam frequently, as an Ijesa woman. Basically, I watch what I eat, and apart from that, I don’t do anything differently. And I thank God I don’t fall ill. I’m sound the way Christ has planned it for me.

Do you still have friends, like age mates that you grew up together with who are also alive?

There is none again, as much as I know; they have all died. I can’t really say if there are still such people of my age in the town where I come from, but in the church that I attend here, the very old have retired to their homes and the ones that still come to church are younger than I am.

Do you have friends, that is, people you go to visit or persons that come to visit you?

My family members, children, grandchildren and relatives come to visit me because they are my friends now. Some people in the church also come to visit me, even though they are younger than me, but they are more or less my friends.

Now that you are 100 years old, how long would you like to live?

It depends on what God wants. I’m only waiting for his time. The only thing on my mind is to make heaven.

What fond memories do you have about your growing up?

When we were young, one of the things we looked forward to was celebrating our birthday because our parents used to mark it for us. As our birthdays approached, we would be very happy because our parents used to give us chicken heads, specially. So, it was a day we looked forward to because it was only the celebrant that would eat the head and nobody would contest that with him/her.

We learnt you loved nursing as a profession when you were young. How do you feel that you didn’t become a nurse eventually?

I believe God didn’t want me to study Nursing. When I was in Standard three, there was a time I fell ill and I was taken to the hospital. The doctor who attended to me pleaded with my father that he should allow me to stay with him for some time so he could teach me some things about nursing, but my father refused because he thought if I was taken abroad, he might not see me again. I wasn’t even told about it at that time, but later when I found out, I was bitter. It was very painful. When I got married, my brother-in-law offered to teach me but we soon left the area we were in Ibadan and so, he couldn’t teach me. It was after that God told me that the best vocation for me was to be self-employed, like an artisan, so I dropped the idea.

How did you know God spoke to you?

If you have a project or a plan in mind, if God is not in support of it, he will tell you not to do it. In fact, you may not be able to do it regardless of how hard you try. God could speak through a man, but the important thing is that he would let you know the danger in what you planned to do, and you may not know his reason then, but usually, such reasons would become obvious later. If a spirit tells you to do something and you oblige and it turns out to be good, then, that is the spirit of God. It is only an evil spirit that would tell someone to do a bad thing. So, the spirit of God is always talking to us, but we have not been hearing from him, coupled with the fact that we have not been serving God enough.

What attracted you to the nursing profession?

I used to admire their dress and outlook, and seeing them used to make me feel happy and I was hoping to be like them someday.

What comes to your mind now when you see nurses here and there, considering your old passion for it?

I had to let go of the dream. In fact, the vocation God committed into my hands was already more lucrative than the nursing profession. When I was still in the knitting business, which God gave me, I knew that what I was realising monthly was more than what some nurses were earning as salary. In fact, I thank God that I didn’t do the nursing, more so that God didn’t want me to do it, because the knitting business was better for me because it was even what God wanted for me.

You were once a teacher. What level of education did you have?

I was in Standard three when my sister took me to live with her. The husband was a catechist, a catholic priest in Erinmo. In the town where we were, there was a new CMS church, with teachers. They used to worship in the house. When we got there, we assembled the children of the elders of the church and taught them, before I went back to school.

How did you and your husband meet?

It happened when I was with my brother-in-law, who was a catechist in the church at the time. Then, we were transferred to another town, Iwara. We used to refer to the church head as the head teacher and the school teachers were called junior teachers. When we got there, they were on holiday. But when school resumed, one of the junior teachers came to greet us, and right there, the spirit of God told me that was the person I would marry. I wondered why me because he was a short man. Later, when I went back home to learn a trade, I used to have some friends and a preacher that we played and prayed together. The servant of God among us used to assemble us for prayer if there was any bad occurrence. So the person told us to fast for three days and that God would show us whom to marry. We were all youths of the same age range. I had mine, and in the vision, it was the same short man that came towards me with a Bible in his hand. My prayer about the person I wanted to marry had always been that God should give me someone who would join me to serve God, not necessarily a pastor, but someone who feared God. So, when I saw the man walking towards me with Bible in his hand, I woke up. I prayed that if that was the way God wanted it, he should let it stand, and it stood.

How did the two of you eventually start dating?

We were living on the same street, so we were not far from each other. It was after that he went to Ilesha Grammar School to continue his education and he was in the school’s first set, where he became the first head boy. So many people used to abuse me for going out with someone who was still in school then.

How old were you when you got married?

I was 19 years old when we started courting, that was in 1933. We courted for five years and got married in 1938. In those days, it was not allowed for people who were courting to go out together, until they got married, unlike what we have now. The much we could do then was if he visited me at home, I could accompany him to a short distance away from home, after which I would be expected back home. That was the norm. In fact, the shame would not allow anybody to go out with someone he/she was not married to. We were married for 60 years before he died in 1998.

How did you handle the trauma when he died?

If you have a friend who died, it could be painful, let alone, a partner whom you have lived closely with. There was nothing I could do about it than accept fate.

Many couples of nowadays find it difficult to live together for that length of time, what was the secret that sustained your own marriage for that long?

We believed and relied on God to make it work. If the couples of these days can unite in their wishes, commit their ways into God’s hands and pray fervently, it will work. They should also have faith in God and their partners.

You used to supply some major companies some materials then. How would you compare the knitting business then and now?

It was during the civil war when the borders were closed and people could not import or place an order for items. Then, I used to supply sweaters to schools but when the borders were closed and importation was banned, that was when I was supplying some of the big firms and they too were selling.

When you said God told you that you should go into knitting and sewing, how did you start?

In those days, the commonest occupation of most wives of catechists was either sewing or dry-cleaning, and my sister whom I stayed with was one of them and she taught me the two. But because it was a rural community and we were moving from one farm to the other, we were not exposed to the modern styles. So, I went to Ilesha for three months training. When I finished from there, I started my own business. Later, I went to London, on government’s account. Government sent us to go and learn knitting. When I came back from London, I couldn’t combine knitting with sewing, so, I had a factory with about fifteen workers.

What have you been doing since you retired?

I retired in 1982. And since then, I have been serving the Lord and relaxing.

Did you send your children to school from the proceeds from knitting?

Their father sent them to school, and he was very passionate about children, including his nephews and nieces, more than one could simply imagine. He took delight in taking them to school and bringing them back. Our house used to be like a students’ hostel during the holidays. I thank God the children are all fine. I wish he lived longer.

In which community did you grow up?

When I left my mother’s place, I went to Erinmo Ijesha before I went to Iwara. The catechists then were posted to the interior villages of Ilesha. It was when I left Ilesha that I learnt sewing and I started on my own before I got married and we moved to the North.

Since you lived in the North for some time, how do you feel these days when you hear about the terrorism and instability there?

When my husband was posted there, there was no Christian where we were posted to then, and we lived in peace with everyone. I remember that our church was in Sabon Gari, and those who had bicycles would come because there were no cars then. The only car that used to pass through the place to Sokoto only went once in a week, after which anyone who wished to travel would wait till the following week.

If you are to compare the life you lived then, when there were no cars with now when there are cars, aeroplanes, and so on, would you have preferred to be born in this generation?

I prefer the kind of life we lived then to the one you people are living now. We even walked distances that were as far as 20 miles, so we didn’t see it as something barbaric. The children of nowadays cannot even dare to trek 10 miles let alone embark on a longer journey. Then, we had peace of mind, strength and much energy. Any child now will find it difficult to walk from Agege to Oshodi. However, I wish I was born in the days before my own. Whenever I read about the miracles that God did, I used to feel hurt because I wish I was born when Jesus was on earth. I would have loved to see Jesus one on one, but I saw him eventually, because in 1930, i realise that there was no miracle in the Bible that did not happen again.

How would you compare the Nigeria you knew when growing up and what we have now?

Well, in my view, things were better than the way they are now because there was no problem or unnecessary fear among the people. In fact, one could successfully walk from here to Lagos Island in the midnight and nothing would happen, which anyone cannot try today because it’s not safe.

Before God showed you the man you would marry, did you have some suitors then?

I had three Ayodeles as suitors, they were all teachers and the three of them were not far from me, but he (my husband) was the one I chose.

What memory do you have about Nigeria’s independence, in terms of the expectations?

Not all of us were educated, so, it was a mixed experience and expectation. Basically, it was those who, probably were educated, and knew what independence meant that would understand better and know what to expect. For those that were not educated, I think our major expectation then was that God should allow what would be the best for us. Individuals and interest groups had different expectations.

If you look back, is there anything you wish you had done when you were younger?

I can’t remember any. My focus has always been for me to hear from God, talk to Him and for Him to listen to me.

How many children would you have loved to have?

In those days, we only relied on what God chose to give. I could not dictate to God, we only prayed that he should give us the best.

With all you have seen in this world, what is your advice to the children of today?

They should serve God, and they will prosper. The children of today now know more than us, but they should learn from those above them and love God with all their heart and He will direct them.

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Idowu Sofola, SAN, who turned 80 last Monday, shares his life career and experience as a legal practitioner in this interview with FISAYO FALODI

How do you feel attaining the ripe age of 80?

I thank God for getting me to this stage and also for good health, joy, happiness, my children, my wife, work and everything.

Do you still do some of those things that you used to do 10 years ago?

I still travel. I came back from Europe like a month ago. I go to my hometown Ikene every weekend. I am a member of Ikoyi Club, Island Club and some other clubs but I have not been there for years. But I still go to the Lagos Country Club which is not far from me. I enjoy going to Lagos Club because we have young men there who discuss topical issues in the country. We have views but most of the time I just listen.

Do you still drive?

I used to but presently I don’t. I drove myself recently and I was really afraid of the narrow places under construction. I meandered through the narrow roads bravely. So I can say I still drive but not everyday.

What can you say about the Nigeria of then and the Nigeria of now?

There have been a lot of changes. I was born in Ikene where there was no hospital or maternity centre. Women then would want to deliver and other women had to help them because there was no infrastructure. I was told that my mother gave birth to me unaided because there was nobody around to help her.

I also remember the year we were taking our school certificate examination in secondary school which was around November/December. Before then, an officer would come from the Ministry of Works to interview us for employment. By the time we finished our exams, we already had jobs. Also by the time we were finishing from the university, work was already waiting for us with a car and accommodation. But things have changed now. As a school certificate holder, you can’t even look for job except the job of a houseboy or a messenger.

In my early days in practice, lawyers used to be highly respected. I remember one day I was coming from the court and I passed through Leventis, I saw brand new cars, I parked and went in to look at them. One of the sales people asked me which one I wanted and I told him that I was just looking at them. He asked me to take one and pay later. I drove a car there which was a product of UAC, their own car was 850 pounds but they said that I could trade in my own for 250 pounds and they told me that I could pay the remaining 600 pounds installmentally withing three months. I refused to take the offer but they persuaded me and they collected my car and gave me a new car to take home. When I got home, people were amazed and asked how I could buy a new car with all the austerity around then. I raised the first installment but my elder brother ended up paying the rest because after a while, they kept disturbing me and writing letters until I told them to come and take their car. But my elder brother, Kehinde Sofola, finally bailed me out. What I am trying to bring out is that they allowed me to take the car home without depositing or signing any document. Can they do that to anybody now? No one can be trusted.

I remember another instance when I was coming back from work one day and I stopped at the Central Bank of Nigeria to see a friend and I parked my car without winding up my car windows and my briefcase, wig and gown were in the car. By the time I finished, I met all my things intact. Some years later, I was in the High Court and wanted to use the rest room so I put my wig and gown at the entrance of the toilet. But by the time I came out in two or three minutes, my wig and gown had disappeared. They must have been stolen by a lawyer. It is so surprising how things are changing. Before it was a salary of 60 pounds per month, you were also given a car which cost would be deducted from your salary. I think one pound was deducted from your salary and we also had allowances. We were given accommodation and we enjoyed ourselves because we were comfortable. Everybody was honest then. In the past, people in the civil service dressed moderately, but these days, people tend to flaunt their wealth; they want to publicise their illicit wealth.

What informed your decision to go to school when other children preferred farming or learning one trade or the other to schooling?

My father was the bedrock of my education. He did not go to school but he was very interested in training his children. Initially he sent the male children to school   because of the notion then that if you trained the woman, the kitchen would be the end of it and also because it was believed that women would turn out to be reverend’s wives. There were also some men at that time who wanted to take their children to the farm to work for them but my father was not like that. His male children who did not have the advantage of going to school couldn’t go because of the problem he had with their mothers, because each time they quarreled, their mothers would withdraw them from school because they did not appreciate his efforts. Even when my father wanted to send me to school, my mother wanted him to take me to the farm instead because she reasoned that my father was getting old and that if anything happened to him in the farm, I would be the one that would come home and tell them. My father’s reply was that he didn’t want me to curse him for depriving me of education.

What can you say about the standard of education now and then?

In those days, if you read Standard four, you were automatically a teacher and you could work anywhere. For those who went to primary school then, things were really good for them as their intelligence was really high. But now, the standard of education has gone down. It is definitely not what we used to have. Now, a primary four pupil cannot even speak good English, let alone read well. I remember my son, Sina, who has now become a Senior Advocate of Nigeria met one of his classmates who remembered him because he spoke good English in secondary school.

Your mother had twins three times. How come all of them survived despite lack of basic health infrastructure then?

It was simply God’s grace. The last twins she had, the Taiwo came in the morning while the Kehinde came later in the evening. Though there was no medical care then, we all survived and grew up healthily.

You married your wife after 10 years of courtship. Were you not tempted to abort the relationship within those long years of courtship?

Well, we parted at a point. She was in Ibadan while I was in Lagos. When I got back from England, we met and we reconciled.

How did you feel when you were called to the bar?

I felt on top of the world that I became a lawyer.

If you had not studied law, what would you have studied?

I would have studied medicine. I loved medicine. While in school I took great interest in science subjects.

Did your late brother, Kehinde Sofola, influence you to study law?

God knows best. When brother Kehinde became a lawyer, I was with him. He would send me on errands, I watched him and followed him to court and I got carried away. Besides, at that time, all I wanted was to leave the country and go abroad to study. But my brother insisted that I pass my A levels first. But our eldest brother prevailed on me and asked me to go for law. I resigned from the Ministry of Labour where I was working to work in the judiciary.

Was there any time you felt like quitting the law profession for something else like business as a result of peer pressure or frustration?

No way. I was invited to the bench quite a number of times, initially as a magistrate and later as a judge, but I refused.

Your contemporary, Chief Richard Akinjide, combined law with politics, have you ever tried to tow this path?

I have never been interested in politics because I can’t stand the way politics is being practised in Nigeria. There is no patriotism in Nigerian politics, politicians would tell you that they want to come and serve the people especially the downtrodden while most of them are just there to serve themselves. If you say you want to help people and the people say don’t help us, why should that be a problem? On the other hand, if you say you want to come and help people and some other people are standing in your way, then let the people themselves rise up and fight for you and leave everything to God. Some people went into politics as poor men but shortly after becoming politicians, you see them in affluence. We need to question the source of their wealth. I have never belonged to any political group. It has never interested me. I was interested in the Labour Party when I was in England. I was attending their meetings but when I came back and saw the way things were being done, I decided that it was not for me.

Are you saying the way politics was played then and now are the same?

Yes, I and the late Chief Obafemi Awolowo were cousins. In our town then, there were inter-tribal marriages. But some parents dissolved their daughters’ marriages because their husbands did not belong to the same political party with them. It was as bad as that. But in my own case, I was the President of the Ikene Youth Association and we were going to have an event and we invited somebody from Ilisan to which he agreed. When we went to remind him of the event a day before the event, he said he could not come because he would be accused of attending NCNC party meeting.

We were just youths who knew nothing about politics. All I am trying to say is that this bad blood has been there all along. In those days, politicians were called 10 per centers but now they are no longer interested in the 10 per cent. They would take all if you allow them.

As the only African to be inducted into the International Bar Association, how do you feel about this?

I have never been interested in seeking election into any office. It took a lot of pressure from colleagues including Chief T.O Benson for me to join the Nigerian Bar Association before I reluctantly offered to become the secretary. I did a year and withdrew. Up till now, no African has been in IBA. In the first year, you will be studied, you will be recognised in the second year if you are good. It was from there that they suggested to me to put in for Secretary General. I lost in the first election because the person who contested with me was the President of the American Bar Association and I was just the Secretary of the NBA. But I won the second time. It was all over the news both locally and internationally. The reason that no other African has been there is that the good ones have not been allowed to stay enough for them to be understood.

How did you handle cases involving suspected criminals?

One thing about law is this, if you charge a person to court for a criminal offence, it is you the prosecutor that must prove all the ingredients of that crime. If you fail in proving any of the ingredients of the crime, you fail. As lawyers, if we are able to prove nine or 10 ingredients of the case, then we make a no case submission. As lawyers we were not there when the thing happened. It is you the client that would come and say what happened. If at the end of the day the court is convinced that you committed it, then we don’t have anything else to do. But in civil cases, what I have done and I still do is that I listen and hear what you want to say and if I believe that you don’t have a good case, I would tell you so. I don’t charge consultation fees. My conscience would not make me say because I want to get fees I would go ahead and take a case I know is a lost one from the beginning.

What do you do at your leisure time?

I don’t come out of my room until 10 or 11 o’clock in the morning. I sleep well, on working days, I don’t have time to sleep in the afternoon, but I don’t do less than eight hours of sleep in the night regularly. If for any reason I don’t sleep well, I make sure I make up for it during the week. My doctor is always astounded with my health because each time he tests me, he does not find any hypertension and the likes. I gave up alcohol sometimes ago. I went out one night and had drinks and the following day, I could not eat. It took me three days before I became okay and ever since then I stopped.

What types of drinks did you like when you were still drinking?

Then drink was drink, but Stout was my favourite.

Religion?

I am not religious, but I try to be a good Muslim. I try to do my best. I remember sometimes ago, the Chief Imam was preaching about alcohol, saying it was not good and that it is bitter. I later on asked him how he knew it was bitter if he had not tasted it.

I used to be a heavy smoker. I was smoking more than 20 sticks a day. I finally decided to change when one day I finished 20 sticks before noon and I was so desperate for more and I asked a stranger if he had a cigarette to which he obliged. It then dawned on me that I needed to quit. It got so bad that people started complaining that my clothes were smelling and even my office too. I told my wife and friends that I needed to stop and somehow I found the will to stop when one day I really felt like smoking and I bought a stick from a nearby vendor. The cigarette made me cough so much that I lost my voice. That was how I stopped smoking in 1980 and I have never smoked since then.

What pieces of advice do you have for upcoming lawyers?

One thing I always say to them is to have character. That is why some of these universities go on strike. They lock up their vice-chancellors and do all sorts of things. You dare not do that in law school. I always stress the need for character regardless of your qualification because qualification does not admit you to the bar. You need hard work, good character, honesty and also when you start work, you have to understand that you need to start under someone, especially experienced and senior colleagues.

You need to work hard so that people will see you. You should take the early stage of your practice as an extension of your law school. Forget about money. Money would come later. As old as I am, if there is need for me to come to work on weekends, I do that. Since the beginning of my practice in 1962, I have never put a sign in front of my house to advertise myself. I don’t put my address on any letterhead or any card.

It is a common thing for people to see their children progressing, how many SANS has your chamber produced?

Five, including my son. My son did not take working in his father’s chambers lightly. When he is in the office, he calls me Oga, but at home I am Daddy. He is doing well and I am happy he is a SAN. I have handed over everything to him though I am still the de facto head.

Can you recollect a specific thing you did for your mother to appreciate her for not losing hope in you, especially when she was carrying you as a child from one place to the other for the purpose of finding solution to your ear defect?

One thing that I can remember is that her elder brother called me and said I should be giving her something every month. Though I did not have much due to the rough start, I managed to scrape two pounds together in 1964. When she died I cried bitterly because I did not have the opportunity to increase the amount. I felt her death; I felt the moment she passed on. I was in England then. I regretted deeply not increasing that amount. That is why I tell people to do their best for their loved ones while they are still alive no matter how little.

How would you feel if Nigerian students should ask you to will your library to them for the advancement of legal study?

Unfortunately the library does not belong to me anymore; it belongs to Sina, my son who is now a SAN. So, there is no way I could will what does not belong to me.

How did you feel when your wife first told you that she was pregnant for you as a young man then?

I felt great; great in the sense that we had waited for years expecting the pregnancy, but when it eventually came, I felt on top of the world.

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In this interview with Adeola Balogun, the General Evangelist of the Christ Apostolic Church Worldwide, Prophet Kayode Abiara, speaks about his initial doubts about becoming a pastor.

Many Nigerians are worried that Boko Haram has carved out a caliphate out of Nigeria. Are you also worried?

Well, the Bible has not left us in the dark. It says in the last days, there will be terrible times. So these are terrible times all over the world. It is not only happening in Nigeria, it is also happening in some other parts of the world. When you watch what is happening on foreign media stations, you will discover that it is not Nigeria alone that is affected by terrorism. Satan has polluted the peace of the world; he is fighting the world, and it has already been recorded in the Bible. When you read the scriptures, you will find out that the Bible says there will be wars, troubles and all sorts of calamities in the end times. It is everywhere. It is the end of the age. People say terrorism is Islamic, but as far as I am concerned, the word ‘Islam’ means peace. I don’t see Muslims as killers or violent people. It is just that Satan has taken over the lives of the terrorists, so it is not about religion. Look at the late former president of this country, Umar Musa Yar’Adua; he was a peaceful man. Again, our present vice-president, Namadi Sambo, is a very gentle and peaceful man. There was a time we went to visit him and he was very polite. He is a gentleman and he is a Muslim. Bola Tinubu is a Muslim too and he is not violent. Governor Raji Fashola too is a Muslim. As for these terrorists, I don’t know where they came from. I think real Muslims must stand and let the world know they are different.

Some people say the political enemies of the government are using terrorism to humiliate the government. Do you believe this too?

You know, there are enemies inside the government. Maybe these enemies are using terrorism to attack the government. There must be an inside help. Someone once said he would make governance impossible if he was not elected to power, according to how I read it in the papers. It is very important to find the reason the person said that because what he said has come to pass. That is why it is very important to be cautious when talking. People will remember what you say. Our politicians must be very careful when they campaign. Nigerians are very intelligent; we don’t forget things easily. People record your sins for you.

In the spiritual realm, do you see this as the end of Nigeria?

No. God is with Nigeria. Nigeria must not be worried at all. Nigeria will have peace by the grace of God through the prayers of the saints. It is a sign of the end time and we should pray that these people should change their minds. God owns their hearts and he can change them through our prayers. We should all pray for this country to let peace reign and God will answer us.

What are the bodies like the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria and Christian Association of Nigeria doing? Are they not worried about the killings of Christians in the North?

They are worried because many churches have been destroyed. You know, Christians are peaceful. If you see a real Christian, he or she is not violent; Christians have the fear of God. That peace is in us. We are praying for peace to reign. We are praying for both the Muslims and Christians.

Has it always been like this in Nigeria when Christians and Muslims couldn’t tolerate one another?

No, we have always loved one another and we used to tolerate one another. But the devil is waging war against us.

What are the challenges of Christians in the North right now?

There is nothing they can do. They must have read in the Bible that there will be persecution and all sorts of wickedness in the end time. I believe they are strong to bear the will of God. It is what the scriptures say. It is just about praying. It happened in the past. Enemies of believers are always at work. In the Bible, they poured hot oil on some apostles. They cut some into pieces. Yet, these people did not deny Jesus. We should just keep praying that the Lord will deliver them.

Recently, the Christian body lost Pastor Sadella after about 70 years on the pulpit. How will you describe him?

Papa was a man of God who believed in the Bible. He loved everybody. That’s why everyone loved him also. When I heard about his death, because I was not around that time, I was unhappy. But I knew that death is a debt. We thank God for what he did through him.

Did you ever work with him?

Yes, he was our father. He even invited me for a programme two weeks before his death. We used to work together.

At the time you thought of establishing your church, did you start before you joined the Christ Apostolic Church?

I did not break away from CAC. I have always been a CAC member. I didn’t break away, but of course, I knew my gifts then. I was an evangelist and when the church authorities saw the talents in me, they encouraged me. I prayed over it. You must work according to God’s will. We are one. I thank God that CAC is not a mushroom church. Now, talk of power, signs and wonders, intellect and miracles, we thank God that He has made us great.

When did you become born again?

My father was a Catholic and my mother attended CMS, but when I worked under J. O. Agoro in 1970, I followed him to a Pentecostal church, Christ’s Gospel Church. To cut the long story short, I was baptised with the Holy Spirit. Then God said I should go for his work. I did not want to hear this because I saw so many pastors who were not okay; they were like paupers. God told me he was the Alpha and Omega and that he would make me somebody. I obeyed the call and thank God today, he has changed my life, and many lives have also been changed through me.

Weren’t your parents worried that you wanted to become a pastor?

They were worried. In fact, my mother thought I was being lazy and did not want to work. I lost my father in 1976. My mother was afraid. She asked why I wanted to be Pauper Aladura (prophet). But I was sure I heard the voice of God. The work is harder than secular work. It involves self-denial. People around me were afraid.

What was your dream while growing up before becoming a pastor?

I was a clerk earning 15 shillings then. I wanted to be a great trader like my boss. In fact, I wanted to register a company but God said ‘no.’

Was it easy to take the decision?

It was not easy. I saw many Aladuras ringing bell on the streets and collecting peanuts. I did not want that for my life. But thank God he has never let me down. I have passed through tough times, but he has made things easy.

What challenges did you face while starting the ministry?

There was a time all the herbalists and wicked people in my hometown rose up against me because I burnt their shrine in the night. Then, I was in Ibadan. One night, I bought petrol and went to where they were worshipping. When I got there, the whole city had slept. God said I should be careful. I set their stuff on fire. In the morning when they saw it, they asked who did it. My mother was worried because she knew I was capable of doing it. When they eventually discovered, all the hunters and herbalists gathered in the sun and cursed me that I must die within seven days. My mother continued to panic. Meanwhile, I wanted to see whether God was alive or not. I did not even fast again. Then, I would eat just coconut for 21 days, 40 days and people called me prophet coconut. I asked them one day why they were fighting for their idols. I said they should let their idols come to fight me. Seven days later, nothing happened to me, they were surprised. I trusted in God, and he saved me. There is no other God anywhere.

Just like you, why are there many pastors from Osun State?

It is God’s grace. God has given Osun State great grace. You will see many more men of God from there. It is just by his grace and we cannot query him for that.

We also have the traditionalists who observe the Osun Osogbo, Muslims are there and also Christians. How are they able to tolerate one another?

You know who you are serving. Every other person knows. There is no reason to disturb or fight one another. Religion is a matter of choice.

As a young pastor, were you not worried that no woman would marry you because you didn’t have money?

I thank God. I passed through a lot. I did not have interest in women at that time. I only focused on God. But one day, one man named Prophet Adasofujo called me. He said “this boy, won’t you marry?” Then he called me one day to come and meet two of his daughters. When I got there, I liked the first one I saw because she was educated and I thought she could complement me in the ministry. God did not approve it. The second person was a tailor. God said she was the one. But I did not want her. I was annoyed. Eventually, I obeyed what God said. I married her and today, we have three sets of twins. She is a lovely wife. God made my way good.

Your children are also in the ministry. How did you manage to achieve that?

All my children are obedient, I thank God. Some are pastors, some are evangelists. I taught them well and I am happy they are doing fine in the ministry.

Are you not interested in becoming the president of CAN?

How can I struggle for any position? I support those who are there. Competing for positions is not Christ like. Even if they want to pick me, I don’t have the ability.

People think you are the overall president of the CAC.

We have hierarchy. We have the President, the General Secretary, and the General evangelist. I am not the president, I have a boss. I am in the position that the founder of this church, Joseph Ayo Babalola, held and I like it.

Recently, the governments of the United States and Canada gave you awards. What were they for?

My people in the US organised a get-together because I clocked 50 years in the ministry and the US House of Congress through President Obama, sent a representative and honoured me; they gave me an award right there. My people in Canada also did the same. The House of Commons also did what the US Congress did. I thank God. To be in the ministry for 50 years is by his grace.

Why have you been silent about it in Nigeria?

Nigerians will know when it is time. They too are planning to celebrate my birthday. I don’t celebrate birthdays. When the time comes, I will do the two together.

Are you also expecting a private jet as gift?

Well, if people buy it for me, I will accept it. People criticise those who own private jets. It is not good. If the owners think it is a necessity for them, it is fine. It is a blessing to them. It is not a bad thing. It is like a car abroad. Many have two, three cars. It is when people are poor that they say all sorts of things. You know it is not good to make a poor man a treasurer. Our knowledge of wealth here is poor and that is why we make noise about it. It is not a big deal. If I am given, I will use it. Then if God says I should sell it, I will. If he says I should give the money to the poor, I will do that.

Are you a fulfilled man?

Yes, I thank God Almighty I am a fulfilled one. I am doing his work and will continue to do so till I die.

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Mr. Emmanuel Omokwale is the Chairman of Dedora Nigeria Limited. In this interview, he tells FISAYO FALODI why he took to farming after he retired from Nigerian-German Chemicals Plc

I can see that you are still agile with the way you smartly walked in, how have you been taking care of yourself?

It boils down to the way I have been carrying out my responsibilities. I always walk around to ensure that everybody is at his or her duty post. I have also been a sports person all my life. So, being agile is natural.

What type of sporting activities do you engage in?

They are mainly cycling and walking. But when I was young, I played football and basketball, as well as hockey. I also loved running, which I did almost every day. In fact, I was the Sports Prefect in my secondary school in those days. I also played table tennis when I was young. So, no type of sports is strange to me.

Do you still engage in cycling now?

Of course, I ride a bicycle in my compound and estate. My wife does not fear that I might be involved in an accident because we have been advised that staying idle without physical exercise is not good for the elderly people. So, she also engages in walking, but does not ride a bicycle. She covers a walking distance of three to four kilometres. Luckily for us in our estate, we hardly have problems while engaging in sporting activities. We choose our time properly, like periods when vehicular movements are very light. We also walk against vehicular traffic so that we can see oncoming vehicles very well.

What was your growing up like?

It was quite exciting. I grew up in the North. My father worked in UAC and he was being transferred from place to place, even within the Northern part of the country. I moved with him round all the cities in the North like Kaduna, Zaria, Kano, Kotangora and many others. So, my growing up days were very exciting, especially when I was in secondary school. My parents brought me to the South for my secondary school education because they wanted me to know their own villages. I must add that I am an Ishan man from Edo State, but my mother is a Yoruba woman from Oyo State. I can speak both Yoruba and Hausa fluently.

You were born at a time when basic facilities like pipe-borne water were not available, how were you able to cope without such facilities that we take for granted today?

Funny enough, we had public tap running in those days. We would go to the public tap and fill our buckets with water and return home. Electricity was not always available then, but it was there, especially in Kano and Kaduna. It was when we got to Kotangora and Debi that we started making use of lanterns.

People believe that education was exclusive to the children of the rich in the past, is it true?

I don’t believe that; it depends on the interest of one’s parents. If parents were ambitious and wanted their children to have education, they would send them to school. Some parents did not know the value of education; in fact, they believed they were punishing their children by sending them to school. But parents who realised that Christianity was not meant to detach them from their culture sent their children to school. In essence, my father sent me to school because of the interest he had in education.

Can you recall some of the pranks you played while you were young?

Yes, I can recall that I played pranks with some of my childhood friends. I remember that we used to sneak into one compound where fruits like oranges, mangoes and the rest were planted, to pluck them. We sneaked into the compound when the members of the family were resting. I used to lead my friends to the place; I would be plucking the fruits and throwing them to my friends. I also remember that we used to throw baits to the dogs inside the compound to make them stray away so that we could pluck plenty fruits. I also remember one particular prank I used to play with one of my sisters on Christmas days. She would wear my trousers and shirt and I would wear her gown. We would go to many places to make people laugh.

What was your ambition while growing up?

My ambition was to become a medical doctor.

Why are you not a doctor now?

As we were growing up, three of my sisters wanted to do the same thing. That was why I changed my mind to do something else.

What did you study instead?

I finally studied Chemistry at the University of Ibadan.

Assuming that you did not have the opportunity to go to school, what would you have done?

I would have become a farmer because I love farming a lot even from my childhood. When I was young, I was rearing domestic animals and livestock such as goats, dogs and fowls. Farming has been in me since I was young.

Can you recall one specific piece of advice by your parents that really made a major impact on your life?

The main advice my parents, especially my father, gave me was that whatever I would become in future was in my hand. My father taught me honesty and also emphasised on it. He always told me to fear God. There was no day he did not mention the need to fear God to me. In fact, he wrote a lengthy letter to me when I was in secondary school in Obuluku, Edo State, where he advised me to always be honest and respect my seniors. Since I was living in a hostel, very far away from him, he kept on reminding me that I should not engage in unlawful activities because he and my mother were not with me. He always told me to believe in myself and to be prayerful.

Do you still have the letter you said your father wrote to you in school then?

Yes, I still have it in my house.

Have you shown the letter to your children?

I have only read it to one of them.

Why not all of them?

The opportunity has not come because all of us have been very busy.

We know that in the past, parents often chose wives for their sons; did your parents choose your wife for you?

No. As I said, my father was educated and had travelled wide. He was sent abroad by the management of the company where he worked and as a result, he was exposed to various cultures. So, he did not interfere when I was getting ready to marry. It was after I had proposed to my wife and she had agreed to marry me that I introduced her to my father. Although he asked her a few questions before he gave his consent to the union.

How did you meet your wife?

I met her here in Lagos after I graduated from the university and our meeting was coincidental. I was attending my cousin’s wedding and fortunately, my wife was a relation to my cousin’s wife. She was not planning to attend the wedding, but somehow felt the urge to attend. The moment I saw her, I developed interest in her and that was how we met.

Was it love at first sight for her too?

No, it was not. She even thought I was a chef.

Probably because of the way you dressed?

No, because everyone around me were cooks. I was using my mother’s car to assist my cousin move his friends and the items he was going to use at the wedding. So, all the people with him were cooks; I was the only person among them who was not a cook. But since I was with the group, she thought I was also a chef. So, it took my cousin time to convince her that I was a graduate and not a chef. That was when she now asked me to come to her house to see her parents. Luckily for me, the person she was living with knew my father. That made it easier as the woman was very happy that I came to the house. We finally got married after one year of courtship.

How many years did you spend with Nigerian-German Chemicals Plc?

I spent 23 years with the company.

As the former director of the company, how did you receive the news of your retirement?

The retirement was planned. I had discussions with the company’s management before I requested for the retirement because I felt I had contributed my quota. I left to start farming. In essence, the management and other workers were happy with me.

Before your retirement, was there any time you felt like resigning your appointment with the company because of one unpleasant experience or the other?

Yes, there was one particular incident I can vividly remember. I applied for a study leave without pay so as to allow me to get a Master’s degree in Polymer and Fibre Science in the United Kingdom. Before I left Nigeria, I had discussions with my German Managing Director and my immediate boss, who was a Nigerian. When I came back after the programme, the management wanted me to rent a place in Ikeja, not far from the office. The management wanted me to stay very close to the plant so that I would always be around and the management also knew that my house allowance was not enough to rent a befitting apartment in Ikeja. It, therefore, asked me to get a place with a promise to subsidise the rent. When I finally got a house, I went to my MD and informed him. But he was furious, asking me why I should be treated differently from other workers. I was really annoyed and wanted to resign. In fact, I went to my office in annoyance to write the resignation letter because I felt cheated. But my French friend, who was a marketer with the company, came to my office to ask for some products. He noticed the frown on my face as I was writing the resignation letter. He just said, ‘Emmanuel, I don’t know what you are writing, but I can see that your face is not friendly and that you don’t write when you are angry’. I dropped my pen and explained what happened to him. He advised me to allow the matter rest overnight. He then advised me to write another letter to the MD to explain why I needed the house and to remind him of our earlier discussion and our agreement that the company would subsidise my house allowance. I wrote the letter as my French friend had suggested and took it to the MD. To my surprise, he approved the money. That was how my friend’s advice did the magic. If he had not advised me to allow the matter to stay overnight, I would have angrily resigned that day. I felt the company reneged on its promise and it (my resignation) would have destroyed my career because I would have gone to another company to start from a lower cadre, which I believe would have denied me of many opportunities. So, I thank God that I did not submit that letter because the MD would have accepted it and sent me away. So, the French man’s singular advice saved me from taking a decision I would have regretted.

How do you manage your anger?

I have been following the advice of that my French friend. I don’t wait overnight now, but more than a week before I take a decision on whatever gets me angry.

As a director in Nigerian-German Chemicals Plc, what do you think you should have done better or differently?

The only area I think I did not do well was in the training of my workers; I did not push enough for them to be trained. I would have done better if I had pushed enough that they should be trained.

So, if you are invited now to serve as a part-time director on the board of the company, will you do that?

Definitely, I will push that people should be trained. The reason why I did not push much was that the company had its own system of training and I just slotted in, but I could have done better if I had pushed that people should be trained.

You started your career in a corporate company, are your children working in corporate establishments now?

Children of nowadays have minds of their own. Two of my daughters are working with corporate organisations in the United States. One is working with me in the farm; she had worked with Akintola Williams and Deloitte to get some experience before she resigned to work with me as my human resources manager. One is also working in a private company in Nigeria. Another one studied medicine, but she is not practising medicine; she works in the financial sector. In short, all my children decided what they wanted to do.

All your children are females, were you not bothered that you didn’t have a male child?

I wish I did not bother, but God did not give me a male child. My wife and I decided to stop having children right from the time we had our third child, but my mother was putting pressure on us to have a male child and as a result, we ended up having five female children.

Did your wife fear that you might have a male child from another woman?

She nursed the fear then, but I am not sure she still does now.

You went into farming after you retired from a corporate establishment, what informed the decision?

Two things. First, I felt that I had inhaled too much chemicals and I wanted a more refreshing environment. The second reason was passion. In fact, one of my uncles, Chief Asamu, in whose house I spent a lot of my holidays when I was in secondary school, was a farmer. So, my interest in farming grew more during that time. Before I started farming fully after my retirement, my wife had already started egg production as a hobby and so I abandoned my dream of establishing a chemical production firm for farming.

Is farming lucrative?

It was lucrative until now. The economy is bad; raw materials are very expensive. We need electricity and water to run the poultry because we produce the feeds by ourselves. Even the birds need electricity and I spend a minimum of N2m to buy diesel every month to run the farm.

What would you have done if you had not got the land to practise farming?

I would have gone into chemical manufacturing because I have all the knowledge about it. I know where to buy the equipment and I know how and where to sell the products. In fact, I had already chosen what I would love to produce, like liquid soap, detergent and others, two years before my resignation.

What do you think that government should do to encourage youths to go into agriculture?

Government has started already; it should give them loans and provide lands and farming inputs for them.

As a person who witnessed the oil boom period in Nigeria, what do think government should have done right to put the country on the path of progress?

Government should have invested all the money realised from the oil boom in agriculture; it should not have allowed agriculture to die. If government had done that, Nigeria would have been providing the whole world with palm oil now. The groundnut pyramid too should not have been allowed to die, so that the country can be a major producer of groundnut oil, groundnut mill and the rest. Luckily for us in Nigeria, our land is good for the production of food crops, but government did not lay much emphasis on food production. Oil cannot sustain the country forever, but agriculture is sustainable. Cotton production should have been developed to enhance the development of our textile industry. If Nigeria had done that, we would have been providing the world with textile materials.

With your robust knowledge in agriculture, will you accept to be appointed Minister of Agriculture by the Federal Government?

I prefer working in the background. I am not the type of person that want to be in the limelight. I prefer giving free advice to whoever needs it without asking for compensation. I don’t think I would want to be appointed a minister before I can offer useful advice to people or the government.

How do you want to be remembered?

Like every human being, I have my own shortcomings, but I would like to be remembered as a honest and simple person. I try my best to do the best I can, but I know I cannot satisfy everybody. So, there are those who may feel I have hurt them because I am very strict, particularly if I have entered into an agreement with someone and he fails to honour his part of the agreement without any genuine reason. This makes me very angry, but I will show understanding if the person’s failure is due to circumstances beyond his capacity or control.

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Rev. Moses Iloh has been many things in his lifetime. The octogenarian, who will be celebrating his 85th birthday in about three months time, was a labour leader, footballer, boxer and sports administrator. He is today the Presiding Steward of the Soul Winning Ministries Inc., social critic and philanthropist. In this interview, he shares his life experience and his love for his wife, Edith, with NONYE BEN-NWANKWO and GBENRO ADEOYE

You will be 85 in another three months. We were expecting to see you with a walking stick, but you’re still very agile. What’s your secret?

Well, it’s God. One, I found God very early. I was born again at the age of 10. I was picked up by American missionaries and they led me to the Lord. Two, although my parents were very comfortable, my father was very much interested in the poor. So that gave us a background of humility. As I was growing up, I discovered that there are four things in life that are so inexpensive, honesty, integrity, dignity and humility. The poor have these four things but don’t know how to make the best use of them. So, we grew like that. I was born on a mines field. I was born in 1930. And because my father loved the poor, every Saturday, he would take two chairs to the market, a bowl, forceps, a scalpel and a bottle of carbolic. What did he do? You see, where we were born in the north, poor children didn’t wear shoes in those days and they played in the dust. There was an insect called Jigger (parasitic bug), which would get into their toes, itching them and multiplying. So they couldn’t walk and he didn’t know what else to do for them, so he would go there and remove the bugs one by one and cleanse their feet with the carbolic. That was what he did every Saturday. Nobody went with him, so we learnt to go with him, we would watch and help him. We were very comfortable people but we learnt that. As far as we knew, the VIP was the poor man. That’s why I say to myself, if I’m ever going to give any government a pass mark, it won’t be because it built bridges, airports, roads. Governments are obligated to do that. When a poor person gets up in the morning and shouts ‘thank God for this government’, then for me, that government has done well. That’s what I expect to see in Nigeria.

How was growing up for you?

I grew up with that background and I used to have so many problems and I was very tough. I was a boxer, I did a lot of running, I played top football in this country. I’ve always loved the poor, they mean so much to me. The upbringing of a child is very important. Money was important because then when we were going out, our father would give us one shilling, which was good money. So we would put it in our right pockets. We could buy what we liked and he encouraged us to give part of it out. Our parents were very generous so people gave us gifts when they heard that we were Iloh’s sons (my brother and I). We put the gifts in the left pockets and wouldn’t touch them. All we were entitled to was the money in the right pockets. We grew up like that. So the most important thing is the background. Right now, the churches cannot do so much, schools cannot do so much. It was expected that what you couldn’t get from your home, you would get it from your school. As a school boy then, our teachers were fire. When your mother told you she would report you to your teacher, you were half dead or when your teacher passed your area, you would be shivering. They were the beginning and the end and there was discipline.

You once had a confrontation with the government as a trade union leader. What was it about?

I was a trade union leader, a very tough one. I was with the Red Cross as a volunteer in Jos, Plateau State. I like to help people. Where I was working, I was a part-time Red Cross officer then. I was working for the Amalgamated Tin Mines of Nigeria when amazingly, because I was vocal and tough, I was made the president. And that took me higher to become the President of the Nigeria African Mines’ Workers Union. So I was very tough and smart but polite. The British government didn’t like my toughness but they knew I would never abuse anybody. In my time as a young boy, Nigeria was not like this. Hospitals were divided between Africans and Europeans. Even the churches and clubs were like that. There was a Mr. Hansen, a British, who was helping us (the union). He stayed at a hill station in Jos. We were to have a meeting and had been waiting for him to join us. So I sent someone to get a car and get Mr. Hansen where he was staying to come and give us a lecture. When he went there, the white man who was a receptionist asked what he wanted there. He said ‘get out you monkey.’ What? The fellow came back and told me that he couldn’t even get Mr. Hansen. I said I wouldn’t ask whether he truly told you so or not, I believe you. So at the executive meeting there, we gave them 21 days notice to send the receptionist away and it was at a time when the Queen of England was visiting Nigeria. We had just discovered a new mineral, columbite. We were principally mining tin then. Columbite was good for making jet plane. So the Queen wanted to come and see it. They thought we were joking and at the time, the Inspector of Police was oyinbo (white man), the superintendent was oyinbo, governor was oyinbo. They were all whites. They said look we will send you to jail. I said no problem but this strike would take effect if you don’t send that receptionist away. The Queen would not come here. I drew my courage from the man that was called Pa Michael Imoudu. He was the Secretary-General of the (Nigerian) Railway. He called a strike that shook Nigeria. I said I was going to do like Imoudu. They accused me of being a communist and trailed me. When my letters came to my box, they would open them and put censored on them. I would see them but I didn’t care. I said I was not a communist but this oyinbo receptionist must go, so they had to remove the guy.

How did you become a prominent Red Cross member?

Months after, I was promoted to the senior service. It meant what they gave the white man, I also got. I called my executives and they said I had done my best, that I should accept the promotion. So, I accepted the promotion with all the comforts. The British people were not sure that I would not be communicating with the union in the night, so after a while, they created an office in Lagos and asked me to move there to represent the mines field. How do you represent the miners in Lagos? We didn’t mine or do anything, but they gave me a nice house, a steward, a car and a driver. I was very comfortable. But I was an active person, so it was going to kill me. Even the people where I was living thought I was a money doubler. I was comfortable and I was doing nothing. So the Red Cross in Plateau wrote Lagos that I was a very active member. So they came for me. So I went there as a volunteer. It was in 1960 and they were planning to take over from the British Red Cross at independence. Then they asked me to work full time with them so they could prepare properly for the takeover from the British. So I took a job that was giving me one-third of my salary, no facilities, no contract, no future, although, they told me by mouth that if things got rough, they would get me a job with Shell. One, I was glad Nigeria was going to get independence and two, I was going to play a role. So I moved. At the Tafawa Balewa Square, I took the parade and brought down the British Red Cross flag and hoisted the Nigerian Red Cross flag. Oh, it was something for me. I still have the photograph somewhere. But it was tough for me. I left the house the British gave me and moved to the Red Cross house at Makoko, Lagos; a small house. When I moved into the house, I saw snakes all over waiting for me.

How did you meet your wife?

In 1954, I was in the senior service and had a car, and was comfortable. So whenever my driver was driving me, I always prayed to God that I would like to have a tall, slim beautiful wife sitting next to me. In the Red Cross, I worked myself like I was going to die. I could go to eight schools in one day teaching. It was tough but I was very strong. Remember, I had been doing nothing for years, so I had accumulated so much energy and it was time to burn it. We had a course at Ijero Baptist Church and there was a teacher there, slim girl, very dedicated and hardworking. When they came to my place to help me, she was the only one who would ask me about the snakes. How did you cope yesterday? I would say I did my best. Because I worked very hard, I was not eating very well. For over 50 years of my life, I ate once a day. And I used to eat very small meals. It’s now that I take a light breakfast. If I don’t eat, I’m very smart, but the moment I eat, I get dull. So she was so dedicated that all the other officials respected her. In our yearly Red Cross programme, we used to have a big show to celebrate the World Red Cross Day. One particular year, the Red Cross Day in Nigeria was going to be celebrated with a beauty contest. They had the preliminaries and on the night of the final, one of the ladies for the finals was not there and there was no GSM at that time. And the judges said no, it would not be right to have it that way. So the secretary of the Red Cross, Mrs. Doherty, asked people to tell Edith (that’s her name) to join them to complete the number. She said no, she wasn’t prepared for it and she was a shy girl. They called me and said you’re the boss, tell her. It’s just to stand in there, finish. I persuaded her and she agreed. She came second. The second prize included training in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Britain. As time went on, I decided that I would get married to her because she was a well-behaved girl. She said okay but that I should come and see her parents. So I used to visit their house at Apapa Road. I noticed that her parents were not so warm, but I would greet them and go my way. But I kept wondering how I would talk to them about getting married to this girl. So I spoke to the mentor of Junior Red Cross, Mrs. Ogunmuyiwa. She said ‘good, she’s a good girl, we will support you.’ She agreed to follow me to meet with the parents. So we went there and greeted them nicely. She told them our intention. When we left, the father called Edith to say ‘you say that man is an Igbo man,’ she said yes. He said then he must be a useless Igbo man. Where do you hear that a woman goes to marry a woman? How can he bring a woman to come to marry a woman? So they hated me. They said all kinds of terrible things about me and didn’t want to know what kind of person I was. And they believed that only poor people were in the Red Cross. They didn’t want to know who I was and how I got there. I faced antagonism when I went to their house. It was looking like who brought this animal here? You know, you could see the attitude. I became sick of going there. But I had a strong feeling that what I had prayed for in 1954, I would get it.

So I said well, I won’t give up. Amazingly, my brother knew Igbo custom. I don’t know any up till tomorrow, so when people come to marry my children, I just give them. I don’t take anything. If the girl says she wants you, finish. I’m willing to pay the bill. I told my brother. He said what I did was wrong, that if I had told him, he would have told me what to do. Also her father was a chief and according to their tradition, a chief’s daughter does not go far away. They are from Anambra and I’m from Imo, so they said never. When my brother came, he took a bottle of wine and all kinds of things and he went and he saw them. They were nice to him but didn’t change their minds. Then somebody advised me to see the archbishop of a cathedral church that the parents were attending at that time. I went and spoke to him, told him my story. He said I should attend the Bible class and be confirmed. But my job was such that in the evenings, I was very busy. I started going for evening classes. I went and did the exam, passed and was confirmed. Then I went and told her parents. They said no, that the confirmation was in my own interest. Then they said there was one uncle they had in Enugu that I had to see to hear what he would say. I went to Enugu and I think the man must have been briefed. I greeted him and told him who I was and that I had come from Lagos. He said I should kneel down before I spoke to him. Where I come from, kneeling down for a human being is wrong and I was brought up as Christian. I’d tell you one interesting story. I used to play football for Plateau. So we played in Kaduna and won a match and the Premier was the Sardauna. He liked football too so they said we must go to see him to pay our respect. So we went to his lodge, and all my teammates sat on the floor. I refused, I remained standing. They were saying ‘sit down’. I said what for? Look at the nice chairs, what are they for? Then he came out; he was a very big man with his beard. He was a fierce looking man. He sat and looked at me so badly that I began to wonder what was going to happen to me. Then he said ‘yes, mister-mister, sit down’. That means, I should sit on the chair. I refused to sit on the chair and I didn’t sit on the floor. I knew he hated me. Then everybody was blaming me when we left, I said I was not used to sitting on the floor. What were those chairs for? So when that uncle told me to kneel down, I remembered that incident. I looked at him, I felt like getting out of the place and leaving but I loved the girl, so I knelt but I felt so bitter in my spirit. After everything, his answer was no. So I left and returned to Lagos. About three weeks later, I went to the girl. I said listen, I love you but I’ve had enough. And because of what I’ve been asking the Lord since 1954, I have a witness that you’re my wife but now I’ve gone the long mile. So forgive me, but I’m through with this. I won’t step in your house again. I’m gone. She looked at me and made a statement which frightened me. She said to me ‘okay, but if the Lord says you’re my husband, you will come back. If the Lord says you’re not my husband, no problem.’ Then I left and went my way. I never thought or prayed about it again. Inside me I hated the Igbo man because I hated the whole nonsense. You didn’t even ask me who I was, you just shut the door. So I didn’t bother about them anymore. So after one year, I was sleeping one night and I was restless. I said ‘how can I be defeated? I said I had never been defeated by anybody. And the Bible says the Kingdom of God suffereth violence and the violence taketh it by force. So I said I wouldn’t give up. So I called her and said I would marry her. So I began to show her extra love, and we became so friendly. So we went on. I didn’t go to the house and her parents didn’t know that we were together. We were so wise and we kept it with respect. Then one year, 49 years ago, we decided to go to the registry quietly to get married. We had our friends- the European, Mr. Hansen; Mr. Seidu Mohammed, who was the Secretary General of Red Cross; and a few other friends, respectable people, with us. My wife brought her things little by little. Then one day, she told the mother that she was going to her husband’s house. Her mother said who and she said Iloh. She was very close to the mother. It was a big shock and she came and we were waiting to see what would happen. And because her father was a chief, a big man in church and the society, he couldn’t be rough. So they kept quiet but they kept us out.

Then there was the Biafra war. It was tough so everybody was running. I moved all my family to my village in Imo. My wife’s grandmother eventually became my mother’s very good friend. Everything now worked out well. When the marriage was 25 years, we had to marry again and had a big ceremony and her family members were there. Next year, it will be our 50th anniversary, we will marry again.

Why are you repeating the process again and again?

To show the love I have for her. The Bible says he who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favour. She is a blessing to me. Oh my God! When I talk about her, I get into some kind of ecstasy. I call her mummy. I love her so much. You know when she left for the UK recently, I was talking to myself in the car and had forgotten that she had left the car. I was talking and nobody was there.

What has been the secret because most people find it hard to keep their marriages these days?

You see, I’m very tough. People were scared that I could beat a wife. When I married her, I told my parents and my brother, if ever you come to my house and there is a quarrel, jump on me, never you ask her a question. Know that I’m the guilty one. She was scared of me when we got married, so I said to her ‘I only ask you to do one favour for me. When you hear me say a thing that is not right, or deal with somebody roughly, have the courage to tell me I’m wrong. She was so shy and calm while I was like a tyrant. Today she can look me in the eye and say sit down there, you are not standing properly. And then when there is a problem between us, I make sure that I take the guilt even when she’s the one at fault. I would reverse the situation and say that she’s not wrong but that the way I approached her or the issue was what was wrong. So we would talk about the way I approached her and not what happened.

Doesn’t she take advantage of that?

Oh no! She was well brought up. I’m going to marry her again the third time to show her my love and appreciation.

Are you saying that in the last 49 or 50 years, you’ve not looked at another woman?

There is no problem, you look at them and you see what you have which is superior. And whenever I travel out, whatever is the best I see there, I would bring home to my wife. Sometime in my life, I smoked cigarettes and I tried to make her smoke, she wouldn’t. I went to Paris once for a business and I discovered perfumed cigarettes. I bought them and brought them back and lit them. I said you see, these are perfumed cigarettes, but she wouldn’t touch them. She’s too good. I’m a very stubborn fellow, you know. So when I make a decision that nobody could stop, to make her feel good, I talk to her and try to pass the decision to be her own so that she will agree with me. I talk and talk and if she says okay I will say you have said so o. You have to keep yourself happy in your life. The Bible says you leave your father, mother and live with your wife and the Bible says you should love your wife in a way that you can lay down your life for her. What are you a pastor for if you cannot show examples from your marriage and your home? If you go on the pulpit to talk, but you shout on your wife and abuse her, then what kind of man are you? When people come here for counselling and the wife says the husband beats her, I will say go to the motor park if you want to beat somebody. If your wife is a child of God, when you beat her you beat your business. Your business will go down. If you want to go up, respect and lift her up. The Bible says you alone can bind 1,000 and together, you can bind 10,000, so why should you lose a thing like that or beat her? Why did you get married then? To me, marriage is a serious thing o. I don’t joke with it. I said to you, in 1954, I imagined I would find a girl. So I found her, married her, then why would I now beat her? Then I need to go to the asylum.

We heard you and your wife bathe together. Is this the case?

Oh yes, glory be to God. We have our bath together. And you look at the pretty woman, blessed be the name of the Lord. I look at her, so beautiful. We have our bath together, sleep on the same bed. All the things I knew, because I was so exposed, I would teach her. But cigarette, she did not smoke. And then she gives me food, I’m a very poor eater and she makes sure that the small one is very good. She’s a good person. It is in your interest to be happy in your home.

People often say as the woman grows older, her sex drive reduces, but that a man remains sexually active for a longer time. So how do you cope now that you’re both old?

It gets to a level where sex is not everything. You look at your wife, you kiss her, you hold her. The important thing is in your eyes; let the beauty you saw before never vanish. In the office, my wife and I have disagreements. She says something, I say something. But the moment we get into our baths, the anger is over, you know. I say it in my mind, the devil must be crazy, he wants me to fight with my wife. No! I want her to scrub my body and when I travel out, the best of cologne, perfume, nail polish, lipstick, which are good, I buy for her. She’s my wife. What you don’t have, she knows you don’t have. What you have, give her.

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Veteran actress Idowu Phillips popularly known as Iya Rainbow tells Ademola Olonilua about her career and life as a widow

How did you get the stage name Iya Rainbow?

The name of my late husband’s group is Osumare Theatre and I was always referred to as Mama Osumare but there was a day I did a movie for the English-speaking section of the industry and the name of the film is The Vow. In the movie, robbers came to my house and killed my child and I was meant to react like anyone would in real life. I cried and tore my clothes. After the director yelled cut, I was still crying, so some Igbo boys on set came to ask why I was still crying. They wanted to call my name but could not pronounce Osumare, so I told them it meant rainbow in English. They were amazed and said they would be calling me Mama Rainbow which they felt was easier and that was how the name stuck.

Were you born in Lagos?

Yes, I was born in Lagos but my parents were from Odogbolu, Ijebu, Ogun State and they were staunch Christians. My father was a prophet before he died. I attended the school of nursing to train as a nurse. I worked at several general hospitals before I retired in 1986 after 20 years of service.

It seems crying profusely in movies comes naturally to you, how do you do it?

I often remember some painful incidents in my life because it is not easy to force tears from the eyes when you are not beaten. Sometimes, I remember my late husband and that often brings tears to my eyes. When I remember some things I am asking from God but have not received, it brings tears to my eyes. You know that sometimes we cry to God when we ask Him for things. That is how I do it.

How did your parents react when you chose to be an actress?

I have spent 45 years on stage. Initially, my parents were not in support of my career. It was worse for someone like me because my father was a prophet. When I started acting, parents strongly opposed it. But now, I am amazed when I see parents encourage their children to go into acting. Then, our profession was seen as something meant for lazy people. People always looked down on us until God blessed our job. Now, it takes me around the world. My parents later relaxed because they were told by prophets that it was my destiny. My father told me that because he desperately wanted a female child, he begged God and fasted for 40 days. When he was asking God for a female child, he was told that the female child he would have would be a servant of God and be more popular than her parents. They were also told that she would go to places they never imagined. It was not through my nursing profession that my glory shone but through my acting career. They eventually saw that the profession was paying off and I was receiving awards all over the world and they later supported me.

Did you decide to build a church because of that prophecy?

It is part of the prophecy. As an actress, I am like a lecturer. We teach people about the ‘dos’ and ‘don’ts’ of life. God had been calling me to serve him but I felt that if I heeded the call, I would not have time for my job. So, I refused. He called me for over 15 years but I turned a deaf ear to him. In 2004, I went to London and a young lady, Kate, who sews our garments, asked me to accompany her to a church where she wanted to make a garment for a prophetess. Initially, I refused because I did not like people seeing visions about me but I agreed eventually. When we got there, she went in while I waited outside. The prophetess came to meet me outside and in the presence of everybody, she asked me why I was running away from God. Then she said that God asked her to query me about the staff He gave me. I told her I did not understand what she was saying since I was not Moses. She said that God told her that if I did not heed his calling, I would suffer. The fact that I did not initially heed the calling made me suffer in life. Even my children were not spared, they shared in the suffering.

What kind of suffering did you encounter with your children?

Sometimes, we would wake up and there would be nothing to eat. Often times, we ended our early morning devotion in tears because there would be no food. God intentionally blocked everywhere we could possibly get help. People began to tell me that I was just being stubborn; they said I was suffering because I refused to listen to God. I had to accept the call at last. I have been at it for seven years and ever since then, I have been blessed tremendously and there is nothing I need that I don’t have. I don’t go hungry anymore; I give out scholarships and can afford to sponsor people now. If you have noticed, I have not been in any movie for about two years now and I am doing very fine. But if anyone calls me for work, I would oblige because acting is a calling for me; it is a gift I brought from heaven.

At 72, how do you combine God’s work with your acting career?

They do not clash at all; I also anchor events. It is a matter of planning and ability to organise one’s life.

Don’t you ever get tired?

I do get tired but when I am, I rest. This is the time I have to do all I can do because there would be a time that even when I want to do certain things, my body would not allow me.

As the only girl child in your family, how did you grow up among boys?

I was a very troublesome girl. I always got into fights and most of them had nothing to do with me. I always defended those that could not fight because I do not like people being cheated. Whenever I went to school and saw someone being bullied, I would wade into the fight and often times I would get my clothes torn. At a point, my father got fed up because even if I went to the stream to fetch water, I would fight. If someone offended me on my street, I would tell the person not to pass my street again and if the person did not listen, I would beat the person up. People always wondered how a girl became a terror to boys. I once fought with four boys at once and I injured them all. We were taken to Central Police Station, Marina. When we got there, the policemen were surprised that a girl fought with four boys and the boys said I was too tough to handle. I was quite tough but I thank God that the changed me.

How did you meet your late husband?

I was made the matron of his theatre group. Then, I always assisted them and whenever they had their anniversary, I helped with arrangements and invitations. I can’t really remember how it happened, all I know is that we got attracted to each other and got married. We did not stay together for long before he died. I lost my husband in 1984 and sometimes, I think he just came to this world to work for me because I am reaping from where he had sown.

What led to his death?

He was sick for about two and a half years and we tried everything possible to get him well but no luck. Whenever he was tested at the hospital, the doctors always said they could not figure out what was wrong with him. Till now, I don’t understand what happened but God knows best. My husband told me in several dreams that all those involved in his death would die and it happened.

When last did you see him in your dream?

There is no time I don’t see him but it is not as frequent as before maybe it is because our children are all grown. He mostly comes when I am bothered about an issue. If I cry to bed, he comes to console me; he would say everything would be fine. I usually tell him that if he did not die, I would not be so stressed up. It is not easy to raise five children alone. If my children need something and I am struggling to get it for them, he comes to me in a dream to relax my nerves. My husband was a great father and lover; he took care of his family.

Why didn’t you re-marry since 1984 when you became a widow?

I didn’t re-marry because many men are liars and I don’t like that. They come to your house, feel comfortable, you cook for them and probably have sex with them and then they say ‘I would see you tomorrow,’ but you will never see them again. I don’t like that. It is better for someone to carry one’s cross. It is just that it is not easy to raise children. I advise widows to walk in my footsteps, I know it is not easy not to re-marry but with prayers, God would help them. For instance, if I had re-married, I probably would have had other children and I would be the one to see them through school at my old age and the man might even leave me. I thought about all these and I decided to face parenthood.

Didn’t you have suitors or a man you had interest in?

They came but they later ran away. I don’t want to mention names but there was a man who came to my house to visit me, he was my suitor then. When he came, he saw my husband’s group members eating and playing in my house. He asked me if they were all my children and I said they were. He said, ‘okay, I am coming.’ He left and that was the last I saw of him. Instead of him to have asked if I gave birth to all the people he saw, he just assumed I did and left. He must have considered the responsibility and felt it was too much for him to bear, so he ran. That was what they did, they ran away when they saw the number of my children.

Since 1984 that you lost your husband, haven’t you had sex with anyone else or how have you been coping?

Then, I did not even remember that I am a woman. I pray no one goes through what I went through. Then, the only time I remembered that I am a woman was when I wanted to ease myself. There were times I would be home and for three days, there would be nothing to eat. I would just be crying. I have a child in London now. When she was in secondary school, her friends had rich parents who always bought them provisions but what I did in our case was to stuff my daughter’s bag with newspapers. Then I would buy a few things and put them in the newspapers, so people would think the box was filled to the brim. I am just blessed with good children who are content with what they have. Seven of us used to stay in a one-bedroom apartment and when we drank garri, my children would be using toothpick in public as if they ate rice and chicken. I thank God that now, we are able to eat rice and chicken. When things were very hard for me, people like Oga Bello stood by me, he is like a father and husband to me. There is Araosan; whenever he came to the National Theatre, I would dip my hand in his pocket and take any money I found there. No matter the amount, he never complained. Yinka Quadri was also of great help to me and Tajudeen Gbadamosi. I can never forget these four men and my mother too. She stood by me and looked after my children whenever I was on location.

Were there times you felt like quitting acting?

Of course, I thought of calling it quits and go back to my nursing career when I did not have money to eat. When I acted in the movie, Aje ni Iya mi, I was paid about N150 and I was fed up. I used the money to cook soup for my family once. Things were very rough with me. When I wanted to quit, Baba Ogunde called me and advised me against it. He assured me that things would still get better. I would never forget his advice and it has come to pass. I have children that are graduates. I live in my own house and I have cars and I can afford whatever I want to eat. What else do I ask God for?

Not many people know that you are into real estate. How did you get involved in the business?

It belongs to the late Alade Aromire. When I was facing problems in my life, I met Aromire and he introduced me to the business. There was a December that I was so broke. I leaned on a car and got lost in thought and started crying. When Aromire came to where I was, he asked why I was crying and I explained to him. He asked if I could help him advertise honey and I agreed. He took me to his office and I advertised the product for him. When I was leaving, he gave me N25,000 which was a lot of money to me then. The Christmas was very memorable. Two weeks after, he called me and asked if I could advertise plots of land and I agreed. Some people said I was a fool to agree without inviting lawyers to draft an agreement but the condition he met me was not one that I could be bargaining for anything. I helped him and he gave me N70,000 on the spot and promised to put the remaining money in the bank. That money was like N70m to me because things were very hard for me at that time. That is how we started. It was when he was planning for us to go to London to advertise his property that he died. My passport was with him till he died. On the day he died, he wanted to give me some money. He said that I should wait for him in the office that he wanted to get to his estate. I waited for a long while and when he did not return, I went home. Nobody told me he had died, they were scared to tell me until I learnt about it. To say that I was devastated is an understatement. That was when he just bought a SUV for me and Mama Efunsetan. That is why I promised that I would not leave his business. One company had approached me with an offer of N10m but I declined. They went as far as saying they would give me a Range Rover SUV but I told them that I could not betray Aromire. If he were alive, I am sure that I would be better off.

What were the challenges you faced as a widow?

After my husband’s death, his relatives did not know where I was; they couldn’t be bothered but I did not blame them because everyone has their own problems. Anytime my children had to pay their school fees, I was always troubled. I stopped buying clothes and shoes for myself; I was concerned about my children.

How many of your children are involved in movie production?

All of them are involved in movie production and I am happy about it. I did not force any of them, it was their choice.

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The 76-year-old veteran broadcaster took Kunle Falayi through the journey of his life, reasons why he could not stay away from the microphone and the moment he appeared on Africa’s first television

What was childhood like for you?

I would say I had a wonderful childhood. I was born in Ibadan in 1937 and schooled at Agbeni Methodist School, Ibadan up to primary level and from there I went to Igbobi College, Yaba, Lagos in 1951. I wrote school certificate examination in 1955 and came out with grade one; four distinctions and four credits. In my final year, I was the school prefect while our head-boy at the time was Felix Ibru – the first civilian governor of Delta State.

My friend and fellow prefect in Freeman House was late Prof. Dare Olatawura, former Chief Medical Director of the University College, Ibadan, an Ikole indigene. He died a few years ago and I made an oration there. We were very close friends from day one at Igbobi College until the time he died. I was really active as a child and brilliant too. We were taught to be religious. I played games and was quite athletic. I was a sprinter and did 100 metres or 100 yards as they called it at the time. I was in the relay team as well with my elder brother, Biola. We also both played football.

I was active in the literary and debating society where I was secretary and represented Igbobi College a number of times in quiz and debate competitions.

Igbobi College was quite popular among people of your generation. Was your father a rich man that he could afford to send you to such an elitist school?

That is not true of us. I will not say that was true of Igbobi College. It was meant for the brilliant boys irrespective of their backgrounds. Dare Olatawura’s father was a farmer in Ikole Ekiti. Late Segun Akinwunmi’s father was also an ordinary man. He too attended Igbobi. Segun Awolowo, the only one with a silver spoon, came to Igbobi a year after me in 1952. Tunji Fadairo who was President of the Nigerian Bar Association twice was also in our class. His father was a minister under Chief Awolowo in the first Action Group government in Western Nigeria and a chief at Ilaro. There was one Babalola as well whose father was a minister. Other than that, most of us admitted in 1951 were from ordinary homes. For Igbobi College, you just had to be good.My father did not even earn four figures. He worked for the Department of Works and Transport for 42 years and two months. It was not a question of whether you had a rich parent or influential parent.

But there must have been a lot of competition among you boys at the time…

That is true. If you succeeded in getting into Kings’College, or Igbobi, you would consider yourself among the best. Then Baptist Boys High School, CMS Grammar School, Methodist Boys High School and St. Gregory’s College were the top schools of the time. We also had Baptist Boys High School in Abeokuta, Abeokuta Grammar School, Ibadan Grammar School and also Oduduwa College in Ile-Ife. There was this urge at the time to go into one of these good schools. I remember myself and my younger brother, Afolabi, also took entrance examinations into the then Oluiwa College, which is now the Adeola Odutola College, Ijebu Ode. Afolabi came first and I was third and we were offered scholarship but he preferred Methodist Boys High School and I chose Igbobi College in Lagos which were considered higher schools than Oluiwa College. Otherwise we would have been classmates of the present Awujale of Ijebuland, Oba Sikiru Adetona, who was a pioneer student of the school.

How does it make you feel knowing that the standard of education in these schools has fallen?

That is the tragedy of this country. Corruption has destroyed a lot of things. There are miracle centres now where people manipulate exams for students who cannot pass. Many people hold certificates they cannot defend. Teachers now even encourage their students to cheat so that they could be seen to be working. Only a miracle can change things in this country.

Would you say you caught the broadcasting bug as an active member of the school debating society?

No. Before that time, I knew I had the gift of gab – I was eloquent. At Agbeni Methodist School, I was the office boy. That was the position given to someone who would be equivalent to the head-boy or the senior prefect in the secondary school. I took the early attendance in the classes and wrote the figures on the board in the principal’s office. I also made announcements at the assembly on Fridays. Before Igbobi days, I had that awareness and Igbobi developed it the more with the opportunity of being in the literary and debating society. In my final year as a prefect, we were the ones reading the lessons for services. I was also the prefect for justice – I administered the punishments. Bolaji Soyin was in charge of the clinic, while Dare (Prof. Olatawura) was in the library because he was a bookworm.

Where did you go to after Igbobi?

When I left school in December 1955, I first got a job as a clerk at the secretariat in Ibadan for three months. I knew I wasn’t cut out for a pen-pushing job, so I resigned. I went across to Oxford House, Ibadan and saw Michael Olumide, Head of Programmes, West Regional Programmes at Radio Nigeria. I told him I would like to be a broadcaster and he told me to come to the studio for a voice test and I did excellently well. I became a newscaster with Radio Nigeria.

I got a study leave later and went to the Nigerian College of Arts and Sciences, Ibadan branch. At the time, it was the only tertiary institution apart from the University of Ibadan. It had three branches; Ibadan – which later metamorphosed into the University of Ife (now Obafemi Awolowo University), the Zaria branch later became the Ahmadu Bello University, while the Enugu branch became the University of Nigeria, Nsukka. But the headquarters was in Nsukka to suit Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe, who was the brain behind it. I was there for two sessions; ’57/ ’58, ’58/’59 for my A’ Levels. Then I was admitted to the University of Ibadan. I was given admission for Divinity but because I was ignorant, I thought that automatically meant I was going to become a priest and I did not want that. But just then, television was starting and they advertised that they wanted pioneer announcers and I applied. I went for audition and I was taken with Anike Agbaje-Williams and one John Ediang and we became the pioneers of WNTV – the first television house in Africa which incidentally marked its 55th anniversary few days ago. It was established on October 31 1959. I did not want to be a teacher because at the time, teachers’ reward was supposed to be in heaven and I was not in a hurry to go to heaven. Also, I did not want to be a lawyer because I thought they were liars, due to maybe my own ignorance. So, I chose broadcasting.

Did you have other people who inspired you?

I had inspiration from people who were reading the network news on Radio Nigeria at the time like Emmanuel Omasola, Deinde George, Michael Olumide, Sam Nwaneri and Kunle Alakija. At Igbobi College, when the network news was being read on Radio Nigeria at 1.30pm which was the lunch time at the dining room, rather than have my lunch, I preferred to go to the common room to listen to the news. That was the initial attraction I had for broadcasting. In addition to this, on the BBC, I was listening to people like Alexander Moyes, Timothy Brit, Richard Westle. These newscasters fired my inspiration the more.

At that point, did you ever think that you were going to be part of television history in Africa?

I had no idea what the future held for me. But I was sufficiently interested in the business that I thought in the future I was going to be another Michael Olumide, Emmanuel Omasola or Deinde George or Kunle Alakija. I saw them as my role models. One thing led to another and I realised the way was clearing for me. For instance, in Radio Nigeria, unless you were six months old in the corporation, you could not come near reading the news but they put me on the news after only two weeks as a newscaster for the West Regional Programme in Ibadan. I was also a sports ceremonial commentator with Sola Folorunso and Emmanuel Omasola.

I noticed you did not say much about your parents in all these. Didn’t they have much say about the choices you made at the time?

That’s an omission actually. My father had a lot of influence on me. He was Inspector of Works at the Public Works Department. He was very honest and devoted to his work. He became friends with Chief Obafemi Awolowo. Whenever Awo was travelling, he would stop by to chat with my father on the road. My father built most of the roads in Western Nigeria. All he had was the first story building ever built in Efon-Alaaye commissioned in 1942 and also a small mud house he bought at Ekotedo which we sold just a couple of weeks ago. He was that honest. Contractors would tell him, ‘Look, let us do a deal, if we are supposed to supply 10 loads of gravel or sand, let us supply six and make do with the money saved from that.’ But he would tell them, ‘Rara, e se ise yin ni asepe’ (No, do your work well and honestly). So they changed his name from Mr. Olasope to Mr. Alasepe. He passed on that quality of honesty, fear of God and hard work to us. But regarding artistic talents, eloquence, dancing, I owe that to my mother. My mother was a princess from Ido-Faboro Ekiti. Because she was a princess, she had been exposed to those cultural things.

How did you transit from Radio Nigeria to WNTV? What brought about that change?

After I refused admission to the University of Ibadan, I went back to Radio Nigeria and they told me that since I had been granted study leave without pay, the condition was that I would have to come back to my original position and that I could only move up if there was a vacancy. They did not add to my salary, which was about 400 pounds at the time. I was not happy about that. Just then, WNTV was advertising for staff. I applied and was taken and they offered me 240 pounds. I asked myself why I should leave a 400 pounds job for a 240 pounds job. But they told me that I could be a flier. And that was what happened. In six months at WNTV, I earned double promotion. When Western Nigeria Broadcasting Service, the radio arm of WNTV, also the first commercial radio in Nigeria, started later on May 1, 1960, I moved up to become the head of programmes on the radio. Segun Olusola was head of programmes for television.

So, you were the first to appear on TV?

Yes, I was. What happened was that on WNTV’s opening night, the opening took place at the House of Chiefs, where the Oyo State Government secretariat complex is now situated. I read the opening news which was broadcast and transmitted live with an Outside Broadcast unit from the lawns in front of the House at 7.25pm. The last story of the five-minute bulletin was about the event of the night. It was on it that Chief Obafemi Awolowo arrived. He was told to arrive at 7.29pm and he was a really disciplined man. Dead on 7.29pm, his car appeared. When I finished the bulletin, he came in and did the opening commissioning there. From there, they switched over to the television house where Anike Agbaje-Williams did the opening continuity announcement. There was confusion as to who was first between me and Anike. Usually, today, if there is going to be an outside broadcast, it is the studio announcer who would hand over to the person at the OB unit, but because we had to commission the station before we began programming, it was the other way round. We started at the OB point. The news reading was first event and the commissioning followed where Chief Awolowo described television as “the modern miracle…” The third event of the day was Anike’s announcement.

How did you feel at that moment you realised you were going to be the first man to appear on television in Africa?

I must say I am not a nervous person at all. I was in control of my nerves. I had been reading the news and got used to the microphone at Radio Nigeria since 1956 – at least three years before that. I could be reading the news and making faces at you and I would not make mistake. Not every broadcaster had control of their nerves. The only difference that day was that the lights were on and I was sweating. I had on a tie of my alma mater, Igbobi College. I was just happy to be part of history. I was just 22, freshly out of the college.

That must have elevated your status among peers and in the eyes of young ladies at the time.

Oh naturally. It was not just friends and peers, girls also. The wives of ministers in the Awolowo cabinet at the time liked associating with me. I got a lot of attention from them. I was a very eligible bachelor. We were given clothing allowance and so we always had on good clothes. The ladies would come around asking where I bought my clothes, who sewed them for me and so on. They too were fashionable because it was the first government of a self-governing Western Nigeria. We broadcasters went around and people pointed at us, calling our names because we were quite popular. Everybody wanted to associate with us. As a broadcaster at the time, you would be equally popular with presidents, governors, kings as you would be with armed robbers, prostitutes and thugs. I remember there was a riot in town, I was driving from Ibadan to Lagos and armed robbers and some thugs laid siege to the road. When I got there, one of them said “Oh, it’s Kunle Olasope, our broadcaster. Let him go.” I passed unscathed.

We enjoyed it. It wasn’t about the money unlike the present day broadcasters. And I don’t blame them. That is what the society has become.

But your salary at the time must be a lot of money compared with now.

I started with 240 pounds and after three months, because of my performance on the opening night, they moved me up to 408 pounds. After another three months when we started the radio arm, I was moved up for the second promotion to become Senior Producer, Radio, which is the equivalent of today’s head of programmes. I went up to 600 pounds. University graduates then were earning 621 pounds. So, the gap of three years that I would have spent in the university was bridged in just six months and I earned 21 pounds less than a graduate.

How comfortable were you at that time on that kind of salary?

Standard of living was quite cheap. Things were far much cheaper. I was quite comfortable. I can even say I was rich. I could afford all the good things of life. I bought my first car seven days after Nigeria’s Independence. But before then, as Senior Producer, Radio, I had an official car which was chauffeur-driven. I was only 23.

Can you mention some of those people you tutored who went on to become great men in the profession?

This is one of those things that make me the happiest because this is one of my contributions to the society. Former Director-General of Radio Nigeria, late Bankole Balogun, went through me. I recruited and interviewed the late Yomi Onabolu, one time General Manager, Ogun State Television. I made him an announcer and also trained him. I inspired the late Bode Alalade into broadcasting. I recruited Channels TV proprietor, John Momoh in Abeokuta in 1980. I discovered him while organising a weekly audition to get new talents. I also recruited the former Vice-Chancellor of the University of Ado-Ekiti and the erudite law professor, Akin Oyebode, into radio broadcasting before he went to study law. I also recruited Ayinde Soaga, now the General Manager of OGTV. There are so many others. It pleases me to know that anywhere I go in Nigeria today, people I trained, recruited or inspired are there.

Do you regret not having a university degree?

Will it not surprise you that I am not a university graduate? I only attended the Nigerian College of Arts and Sciences, Ibadan. The solid background I had at Igbobi College which I built on made me as good as anybody. I am not inferior to anybody. I rank shoulder to shoulder with those who got masters and even PhDs today. In later life, I got two doctorate degrees (honoris causa); I got one in 2004 from the Shallow Bible University of Iowa, US in the same Divinity that I ran away from. I got another one from Mercy International University, Maryland, US in Public Administration in 2006. I have been a member of the Institute of Marketing, London since 1974 because I later became the first director of commercial services in broadcasting in Nigeria at the WNTV/WNBS in 1968. I have achieved a lot that university graduates could not. So what more do I want? I got a national honour in 2000 as Member of the Order of the Niger as a result of broadcasting. I was one of the first set to be given the Distinguished Veteran Broadcasters Award by the National Broadcasting Commission in 2000.

How did you manage fame at such a very young age?

The fear of God was there. The fact that God has given me a very simple lifestyle helped. I did not go into any rebellion. That’s why I did not join any union when I was in government service. Many lazy people would hide under unionism to cause trouble for management. I believed in working hard, honesty and I did not chase money for the sake of having money and I was never corrupt. I retired as a Director of Commercial Services and I took no kobo of government money. I was retired during the Olusegun Obasanjo/Mohammed Murtala era for what they called inefficiency few months after I was made a director in 1975. I gave the facts to Bola Ige, my lawyer, and he was going to take them to court for citing inefficiency as reason for the retirement. It was Vincent Maduka who slotted my name into the list of those to be retired. But I don’t wish to go into details of that.

However, during Festival of Arts and Culture in 1977, I was hired as an external expert with seven others, who included Wole Soyinka and a few other people to work at the national secretariat. When Obasanjo saw me, he asked me to come to Dodan Baracks and through late Commodore Oduwaye, he gave me a waiver over retirement, that they had made a mistake over my case. That was how I came back to government work. OGBC offered me an appointment. After OGBC, Bola Ige started the television service of Oyo State and invited me to be the head of presentation. I finally retired in 1984 and I never did any full time broadcasting until 2000 when the then Ekiti State Governor, Niyi Adebayo, made me the pioneer Chairman of the Broadcasting Service of Ekiti State.

While on air, did you ever commit an error that caused trouble during your broadcasting days?

I was too careful, sufficiently efficient and adequately responsible that I did not make such errors. On the contrary, I got accelerated promotions and awards for exceptional performance. That was why the reason given for my initial retirement was laughable. It was equally shocking to Bola Ige.

Did your career choice influence any one of your children?

They went mostly into the economic world. But my first child, Jumoke, had my talent. She was a broadcaster with OGBC and later Lagos television. She was born in England during my course with the BBC in 1962, she did some freelance work with the BBC and works with the bureau now.

So when did you meet your wife?

She was working as a secretary in the office of the then Premier of Western Region, Chief S. L. Akintola. She was being brought from work at Oke-Ado one day in a car with government registration number WNG 35. I was fascinated by the adornment in her hair. I shadowed her till the car stopped in a corner. The following day, I saw her outside again and when I asked one Sabaina Bakare, who was working in the marketing board at the time, who she was and he told me he knew her and I asked him to introduce me to her.

I started talking to her and visiting her. For six months, she did not visit my house and did not go out with me. But after that, she went out with me to a dance at Adamasingba where Roy Chicago was playing. I told her it was a victory dance. It has been 50 years now and seven children after, we are still together.

Do you still broadcast because your voice still sounds good?

On a regular basis every Sunday afternoon, I do a review of editorial opinions in newspapers on Ekiti Radio. I started doing that about a year ago. Before that, I did it for four and half years on Splash FM, Ibadan.

So you can’t stay away from the microphone?

Oh no, I cannot. It is not possible for me to stay away from the microphone. I have told my children, when I die, if they don’t bury a microphone with me, I will refuse to go to heaven. It is the only thing I know. I am always looking for ways broadcasting can be improved. If I hear anything wrong on radio or television in terms of pronunciation or information, I phone the studio right away and talk to them.

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Mr. Victor Haffner, an engineer, 95, was the Managing Director of the Nigerian External Telecommunications and one time President of the Administrative Council of International Telecommunications Union. In this interview with GBENRO ADEOYE, he shares his experience as a career engineer in the early 60s and 70s and during the Nigerian Civil War

How did your family come about the German name Haffner?

If you go back in history and read the books, they will show you the position of Ogun State relative to the old Dahomey in Benin (now Benin Republic). I got to appreciate this when I had to install the first satellite station for Nigeria. I installed two satellite stations which we used for communications in Ibarapa. I found out that my roots were from Abeokuta, Ogun State, my mother was from Ibadan area. If you get to Meko, after Idere, coming through Abeokuta, it was the common boundary between Ogun State and Benin Republic which used to be Dahomey. If you walked across, you were in Benin Republic, about three or four miles. During the time of the slave trade, the people from Dahomey made a lot of money. The slave trade was such that when the people who wanted to buy slaves got to Dahomey, they came with big bags of tobacco and drinks, which they used to exchange for slaves. They would take men and women to their place and then adopt them. Some became their wives, and sometimes you found that some women who were really tough, would pretend to be their wives, kill them and find their way back. At the end of the slave trade, majority of people from Itoku (until you almost got to Iberekodo), had English names, German names and all sorts. Those were the names they inherited after the slave trade. My ancestors were in Sierra Leone, and I belong to the Kisi tribe- a very forward group of people near the coast. That was before my grandparents moved here. Even in Ghana, you will also find some Haffners there. Haffner is a German name. There is a Haffner symphony by Mozart, a famous German composer. People also ask me that, but what’s in a name? Yes, some people change their names. There was no need to change mine.

How does it feel to be 95 years old?

You are the second person to ask me that question. It depends first on your breed, your lifestyle, the way you lived when you were young, and the training you had. I was a little boy in Lagos. As I sit today, I’m thinking of what I’m supposed to do tomorrow and I write them down. I don’t live a life such that I wake up and say what am I going to do today, I already know what I’m going to do tomorrow. I may not be able to finish everything. That is the only way to know you are living, otherwise, you are dead. It makes you blind and it dulls the brain.

Health is a very important word. If you try and do everything in moderation, you will be all right but it doesn’t mean that you will escape because you could have accidents. I’ve had a lot of accidents in my life and I’m very lucky to still be alive.

What happened to you?

If I tell people some of the medical treatments I’ve had, nobody would believe me. I’ve been in the theatre under full anaesthesia nine times. The first accident happened just before I returned to Nigeria. The colonial office had asked me to go for a check-up. Then I had an injection which caused a lot of damage and that was the beginning of my problem. I was all right until I came to Lagos and realised it. So I had to go back to London and I was in the theatre about six times. It was the first time I had the experience of going under anaesthesia, and they almost cut me into pieces to keep me alive. That was the first operation I ever had. The second operation I had was during the time I was on study leave abroad after I had returned to Nigeria and was working with the Post and Telegraph. We were going on an inspection on a fateful Friday afternoon in Exeter, Devon, England where I had my post graduate training. It would have been my last day on earth but I was saved. The senior executive engineer was driving the car, I was on the left (beside him). We had to cross a road. It was a hilly place with no traffic lights and I looked on the right and saw a car coming at a high speed. I said the best thing was just to keep quiet and wait for it. I knew it was coming, and the next we heard was ‘bang.’ Our car was hit on the driver’s side. All the doors on the car were jammed except my door. The engineer collapsed with his collar bone broken. I thought I was all right and since my door was open, I got out of the car and dragged the man out. It is not like Lagos; onlookers had already phoned 999. Before I got to the kiosk to inform the office about the accident, the police and the fire brigade were already there. That was the first time I understood what is meant by having a shock after an accident. By the time I got back, they put me in an ambulance. The fire brigade had put the fire out and the police officers asked me which direction we were coming from. I had been there for one year and had walked round but I went blank. ‘Oh, don’t worry,’ they said, ‘go and have a check at the Royal Exeter Devon Hospital to know if you’re all right or not.’ I was stubborn because I had the intention of going to London that weekend to see my wife, so I went straight to the railway station. I was expecting my first son. I appeared to be all right. Then after the weekend, I came back to Exeter and I noticed that my neck was stiff. I couldn’t turn it right or left. Still stubborn, I did not go to the hospital. After one month, it eased. I thought I had escaped but did not realise that I was not out of danger. I got back to Lagos and nearly 10 years after that accident, one day, I was in church and tried to kneel down but couldn’t. My knees were all swollen. So I went to the orthopaedic hospital and was given some medicine. Then my birthday came and I danced and it started again. I went to the hospital again. The medical director did the x-ray and said there was no fracture. He asked me to go straight home to bed but I did not know he had deadened my knees, so I went to the Metropolitan Club instead. After lunch, I found that I couldn’t get up. The doctor later said he had deadened my legs so that I would not be able to move for three days, but I had already moved. So I got over that. But that was not the end, apparently, there had been additional damage which I didn’t notice until I started feeling pain in my head and I thought that my time was up. So I went back to my doctor. An X-ray later showed that some cartilages were damaged on my knees. The vertebra was damaged on impact after the motor accident. My spinal cord had shifted and so I felt pain everywhere but they couldn’t operate it. They gave me retraction equipment. I used it in my bathroom, fixed it to the neck and it pulled and put the thing in place. Then the worst accident I had was when armed robbers came here when I was 78. I was too bold because they entered the house. My wife and my niece were upstairs and my nephew sat here when they came in. I came home just at past 7pm. That was when armed robbery incidents were rampant in Lagos and they would say you shouldn’t look at them. I got up and bluffed them and said look, if there is anything you want in this house, you can take it and get out. My wife didn’t know that I was back. As I climbed the stairs halfway, I spoke in Yoruba ‘won ti de o.’ They had ransacked the wardrobes, my niece was standing and my wife was stunned. So I turned back and put my back on the door. Then the next thing I heard was a click. The one following me released the catch on the gun. But he didn’t realise my strength. He thought I was an old man, so before he knew what was happening, I had removed the gun from his hands. I held onto it and he could not take it from me. One of them came from the bedroom and they could not take it from me. Then the gun went off. When I found out that I was all right and got up, the robber took the gun, turned it round and used the butt to hit me in the eye. If he had hit me in the forehead, I could have been a vegetable. He hit me on this side and the eye came out; the cornea and everything with the nerves, the veins and the arteries. I could see my left eye with my right eye. The gun had hit one of them and then they ran away. I was taken to the hospital.

I had about 13 stitches here. There was blood all over the place.

At 78, you were so daring. What were you thinking?

I don’t know, maybe he was threatening by releasing the catch or I thought he was going to shoot, so I said I would take the first chance and take the gun from him and I took the gun from him. He was shocked and couldn’t believe it. It was a big army gun.

What would you say has been responsible for your strength?

I’m an engineer. Sometimes, there would be a fault as high as 100 feet up and we had to climb up and fix it. So I was training myself.

People are warned not to drink or smoke. But you did those things and here you are at 95.

Oh! I was a very heavy smoker. I gave up smoking and drinking anyway around 1989. I just gave it up. It was funny. One day, I just said no. That day, I really got fed up. I was smoking a cigarette and there was another one burning in the ash tray. I told myself that it was enough. Giving it up made a lot of difference; it saved me a lot of money because most times, I had burns on my very expensive suits. Then the cough; first thing in the morning, I must smoke. At night, I would smoke and it became a real nuisance. I just gave it up and I don’t know how I did it. It just happened one day.

Congratulations on the launch of your memoir. At such an advanced age, you still have a remarkable memory of major events in your life. How did you do it?

My memory must have been a gift. I would regard it as a gift that I could still remember a lot of things, mobile numbers, days, events and everything. If you read my book, you would see that I put so many dates there and they are the exact dates in which the events really happened in my life. They are not things that I like to think about but what happened was that government became rough. There were a lot of political rumblings, fighting and everything until it resulted in the first coup of 1966. Then, I was the Managing Director of the Nigerian External Telecommunications.

We know that Harold Wilson who was the Prime Minister of Britain knew there was going to be a coup, the night before, so he asked Tafawa Balewa to follow him to Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe). The British, you can’t trust them. Balewa said he was too busy. The British High Commissioner asked him to come to his house, he did not go. People at the Island Club guest house were hearing noise outside; that was when (Emmanuel) Ifeajuna went into (Festus) Okotie-Eboh’s house and bundled him out. They said he offered them money but they wouldn’t take money. They went to Balewa’s house, his orderly drew out his gun. They said Balewa told him to put his gun away and leave them alone. He asked what they wanted. They said he had to go with them and he said okay. He went in and prayed and then went with them. Meanwhile, Remi Fani-Kayode, had come to my house to tell me about what happened in Ibadan. He said about 7pm that evening, a Land Rover came and asked him to get out. He said before they said come out, he was out. Then they drove to Ladoke Akintola’s house. They said he was well loaded with his gun, came out and started shooting. He knew something was on. There was an exchange of fire. Kayode was lucky that no stray bullet hit him. They gunned the man down and then left and drove to Dodan Barracks, Lagos, at around 5 or 6am with Kayode. It was later that Yakubu Gowon asked them to release him. So I was now in the middle of everything. News started coming into my office. Daily Mirror, Express, Mail, all of them were already in Lagos trying to file messages. When I read them, it became so hard to pass some of them across. It became so bad and they went and reported to (Aguiyi) Ironsi that I was censoring the reports. The journalists said they would lose their jobs, I said I also would lose my job if I passed all these out. I said they couldn’t go out. They saw the dead body of Balewa and Okotie-Eboh near Ota, Ogun State. They knew the bodies were dumped at LUTH. They got all the information and where I was sitting in my office, I knew what the reporters were getting. They were paying money to get information. It is sad but then many other things happened which I did not write in the book. My office became empty because the traffic manager was Igbo, so he took all the papers away. One morning in 1967, I was in my office when a Land Rover came and I was bundled and driven to Dodan Barracks in front of (Yakubu) Gowon. He looked at me and said, ‘you are Haffner.’ I said ‘yes.’ ‘You are in charge of external communications.’ I said ‘yes.’ ‘Do you think that messages can leak out?’ I said ‘yes sir.’ He said ‘can you stop it?’ I said ‘I can stop it.’ Then he said, ‘how will you do it?’ and I said, ‘I’m sorry sir, I can’t tell you, that is my secret.’ The soldiers thought I must be very bold to tell him that. He said ‘okay, how long will it take you?’ I said ‘give me seven days.’ The whole leakage was happening under my nose. What happened was this, you see Aminu Kano was in charge of procurement and buying all the weapons. General Ogundipe was the High Commissioner and Simeon Adebo was in the US as a permanent representative. They were communicating on what to do, everything they wanted and coordinating the civil war. Anytime the call came through, the supervisor who was Igbo would put an Igbo operator on that particular channel and get all the news. They were getting the scoops of all the preparations of the Federal Government. So we blocked it. Those who were supposed to be loyal were actually spies for Odumegwu Ojukwu. Before I travelled, I told my deputy to remove the communication gadget from Gerard Road and take it to Bourdillon, Ikoyi, Lagos in the night, then to Dodan Barracks, disconnect it from our office. Those people who wanted to speak would have to go to Dodan Barracks; that was how we had to do it.

What fond memories do you have of your childhood?

It was good and very quiet. We had no problems; if you left something anywhere, you could come back for it unlike now when somebody will pick it up before you even leave the place. How can a governor say that he is not able to pay N19,000 a month salary? How much is it? The first is to have a new constitution. The 1999 constitution is not fit for this country. Where is the sincerity of purpose in helping people in this country when somebody puts a foot in APC and puts another foot in the PDP?

You attended CMS Grammar School, Lagos, one of the foremost secondary schools in the country. How was the experience?

We were just learning and didn’t find difficulty in learning and doing what we were asked to do. Parents were strict and would make sure their children did what they were asked to do. Now, they have turned everything upside. A parent engages in examination malpractice for his children. There is too much stealing going on now. Look at people who had worked hard for 20 to 30 years and don’t get paid. They have not paid my pension for nearly six years. They want to see whether you are breathing or not and then you find a director who is working in the pension office having 26 houses in Abuja which he built with the pensioners’ money. I don’t know whether there are no good instructions in schools like in the days when we were young, to bring people up to become men. We have to go right back to find out what exactly happened.

You retired at 55, some people will consider that as early.

I just got a notice that I was retired with immediate effect and should go.

In a bid to slow down people from the southern part of the country, the north used so many methods. The north tried their best to slow down the educational progress in the south and failed. They used all sorts of methods. Then in 1975, they did it by force. They thought since the educational qualifications were so unbalanced, they should slow down the progress in the south. They thought they could throw us out and put their people there to do the work. Bamanga Tukur was an executive officer in 1975, which meant that he was higher than a chief clerk, but not a professional. Murtala Mohammed became the Head of State, turned the civil service around like a pack of cards. They transferred somebody who was a technician in my organisation to the army, he became a major and then they made him the managing director. How can he run the place? They threw out highly qualified people with BSc Engineering and everything and put dead woods there. Another trick; they formed a thing in the north called administration. We had to go through primary, secondary and tertiary, but they said that after secondary, they would go through a sort of administration for about two years. Then they injected that person into the federal civil service and he superseded you, somebody you interviewed for employment now becoming your boss. You cannot turn back the hands of the clock; but that was what they tried to do and couldn’t.

How do you relax?

I read and listen to music. I watch television but I don’t watch dancing on television. I watch television to educate myself. I try to educate myself every time. (He brought out a book he was still reading and raised it up). Where do we come from? Where are we going from here? Forget everything about religion, where did it all start? They are still trying hard to see the possibility that there is another place where people are living like us. (Reading from the book) “We each exist for such a short time and in that time explore a small part of the universe. We wonder, we seek answers, living in this vast world… people have asked questions, how can we understand the world in which we find ourselves.” Are we the only ones? I’m sure not.

I know that you love music. Do you still play the piano?

Yes. I was in the choir and I was taught music. In the choir, we were encouraged to write external exams. If you take that kind of exam and you read the theory of music, you don’t need a beginner’s book to learn how to play a musical instrument. You can write music and everything.

How would you like to be remembered?

I will like to be remembered as somebody who came into this earth, was educated and tried to impart knowledge to other people as best as he could. Also as someone who tried to move forward but sometimes, there were certain things which prevented him from doing it.

When most people get to this stage in life, they get closer to God. How religious are you?

I’m very religious. I was in the choir for seven years. I could not serve as a steward in the church because I was working round the clock all over the place. Then we had to get a new organ, I was responsible for the installation. Yes, I get myself very busy.

Your uncle, Henry Carr, willed his library to the University College, Ibadan before his death, who are you willing your music library and books to?

I’ve set up a foundation and I’m going to give something to CMS Grammar School.

You lost your wife after about 50 years of marriage. It must have been very painful, how did you cope with the loss?

Yes, it was painful; nothing I could do about it. It was not easy. Most of the children don’t live here, I live here. We were married for about 51 years. When I was young, my mother taught me how to cook. I’m a good cook. So I was taking care of myself.

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Eighty-year-old Pa Adesakin Olabode is an author who served Lagos State government in various capacities under the former governor Lateef Jakande. He shares some of his life experiences with Ademola Olonilua

How has life been for you at 80?

It has been beautiful; it is an achievement in life and it is the grace of God. When you look at the life span of an average Nigerian today, many people only live up to 50 years at best, but when God gives one the grace to live up to 80 years and still has good health, it is a very beautiful thing and I am enjoying it at the very best.

What was your childhood like?

My father died when I was a baby but he did something wonderful at my birth. At the time I was born, there was no serious documentation about child birth but he had an account book where he wrote events, births and other special occasions. Years after he had died, my mother was doing a general cleaning one day when she stumbled on a box where my father kept some documents. Most of the books had been eaten up by ants but luckily, the last two pages of the book where he wrote my name were still intact. My uncle who was invited to look at the document saw my name on top of the paper and what my father had written down. He wrote that once I was weaned, I should go to school because my elder siblings did not go to school. Unfortunately, before I stopped breastfeeding, he had died. I was 15 years old when we saw the book. I had gone to the farm that day and when my mother heard what my father wrote down, she asked some people to fetch me from the farm immediately. She said that she would not allow the curse of the dead to be upon her. I started schooling that very day. It was the second quarter of 1949.

How was it growing up without a father?

It was not easy. My mother was a great influence on my life and that was why when I left college, the best and the most memorable thing I did was an artwork where I wrote that I owed my gratitude to God and my mother. Our pictures were on the artwork. Immediately I started school, things started to fall into place for me. I also acknowledge the fact that my father’s request played a major role in my life because my mother did not think on her own to put me in school. It was immediately she heard about what my father wrote that she put me in school.

What are the secrets to your being healthy and looking good at 80?

I would say it is God’s grace because my God is one of possibilities and when you have faithful encounter with God daily, your life would be blessed with good health. I key into God’s word everyday and I obey him. I also exercise myself daily. When I was young, even though I worked with Guinness, I never drank alcohol nor smoked cigarettes. I watched what I ate and drank because it was part of my life discipline. I think it kept me going well all the while.

How did you do it not taking alcohol despite working with Guinness?

I was with Guinness from 1961 to 1967 and I can say it was just a matter of discipline; I restrained myself even though my peers indulged in it. I never copied them because I only do what I feel is right for me and I do not base my life on what others do or think about me. At all times, I try to be myself.

Why did you leave the lucrative job?

When I left the company, I went to the University of Lagos. I left in pursuit of knowledge.

How did you do it writing a book at old age?

Some people take care of their bodies a lot, but they do not take care of their brains. I read a lot and I have a library. I am writing a book now and I have two that are completed. The country has gone so backward that we need to put a lot of things that we have seen into writing. When people do not read, they do not exercise the brain. A reader today is a leader tomorrow. Our youths are not reading today and the parents are to be blamed for that. I can’t really blame them because you cannot give what you do not have. I have no limitation when it comes to reading and above all, I love reading my Bible because it is the compendium of all knowledge. I start my day with my quiet time with the Lord and I read other books on politics, environmental sanitation and anything that has to do with human development.

You have some books on marriage and you have been married for decades but if you look at our society today, the rate of divorce is on the increase. What do you think is wrong?

A lot of people are paying lip-services to relationships. I don’t believe that you love a woman and still beat her. The rate of spousal assault is on the increase and it shows that there is no can love in the family. If there is no love, there cannot be unity and progress. People come from different backgrounds to get married; they need to study themselves. They need to tolerate each other; they need to have a spirit of giving. There should be openness because if both parties are keeping secret, it would eventually become public knowledge and they would not like the end result. People are no longer sincere and faithful to the marriage vows and that’s why the whole thing comes to an end abruptly.

How did you meet your wife?

It was by the grace of God because she is also nee Olabode and that was the making of our union; otherwise we would never have met. I was in Lagos and she was in Akoko, Ondo state. Incidentally, she was in the same class with my cousin. My cousin wrote me when I was working in Guinness that I had a sister in her school, Abike Olabode. For years, we did not meet but we were writing letters to ourselves. I also used to send her hand-outs and magazines. It was God’s making otherwise we would never have met.

When did you meet physically?

We eventually met in 1965. I was to go to my hometown to do something, so I wrote her that I was coming and she gave me the school address. But when I got there, I was told she had gone home. Eventually we met and we hugged each other and that was how our relationship started. It has been very beautiful and we have good children and grand children.

Did your father’s request have anything to do with you being an author?

I don’t see myself as a serious author even though I have written a lot of articles and papers. For instance, the mini water works we have in Lagos today, I wrote a paper to the then governor, Lateef Jakande, and he replied after a while and invited me to discuss the issue with a committee and that is how we started the mini water works. I felt that it was wrong that the water works we had in Iju went straight to Victoria Island because that was the Government Residential Area for our colonial masters. It was after they had been served that the water would be brought to Lagos Island and its environs. For a long time, there was no water in places like Mushin and Agege. I felt it was wrong because water is life and all citizens in the state must drink water and the governor agreed with me and that is why we have so many mini water works in the state but unfortunately, we do not have leaders to follow up.

You pioneered the mini water works project in Lagos State; however, not all Lagosians can boast of having potable water. How do you feel about the development?

It is a terrible thing and it is a shame that we have gone away from the basics. There are no serious politicians and we don’t have any political party now that has a real manifesto. When Jakande wanted to come into government, the schools in Lagos then were running three shifts and he changed that because it was not all the children that were learning. He spoke on housing and he made a difference in that regard. The Unity Party of Nigeria then had a manifesto caring for the welfare of the people. There was free education and a good health care system. When Chief Obafemi Awolowo was the premier of the Western Region, it was a paradise of a state and at that time, the region was likened to Brazil. He wanted to rule the nation and transform it but our colonial masters knew that if he ruled Nigeria for just two years, he would transform it and we would be bailed out of the shackles of colonialism forever and they did not want that. That was why they used their connections in the north along with some of our people to make sure that he did not rule this nation.

You were also a member of the Board of Directors of New Towns Development Authority in Lagos. What were the tasks you were charged with?

That was when we started the low cost housing in Abesan and the new town in Oroyin. We developed a lot of new towns and some low cost housing estates because the state had a people-centred governor. It was the board that established most of the new towns you have in Lagos today.

Some of these low cost houses are now in bad state. When you drive around Lagos and see them, how do you feel?

This is why I don’t go out most of the time in Lagos because when you see things that ought to have been developed grow worse by the day, it is heartbreaking. Look at the roads, they are in a bad state and it is because those that are coming into power had no part in the development so they do not have a reason to maintain them. They want to establish their own projects. The houses are there and instead of the government to develop them, they just abandoned them; it is rather unfortunate. It is because we do not have people that can hear and listen. When they listen, they choose what they want to listen to and they do so just to criticise. It is very sad that a lot of the good things the past government put in place have been abandoned. There is total abandonment of everything.

You keep referring to Lateef Jakande as a people-centred governor; however, some would argue with you that there are some governments that have done better.

It is a lie, there is nobody that has touched lives. I have been in Lagos for a while and have been a part of the system. There was no single school in the whole of Gbagada before Jakande era but when he got into power, he established various schools and no government has added a single school to them ever since. The hospital in Gbagada was built by him, though it is now transformed to an annex of the teaching hospital; the road in my area was tarred by his administration. When it comes to the issue of the first environmental sanitation in Lagos, we were the people who participated in the symposium and I initiated it when I got to the office and noticed that people had the habit of walking on the lawn. There were days that I spent hours at the Lagos State Secretariat to make sure that people didn’t walk on the lawn. People do it carelessly in Nigeria and it is because we don’t have moral standards and etiquette anymore.

Although once every month, the government ensures that its citizens partake in environmental sanitation, most people rather sleep and wait till it is over. What do you think is wrong?

It is our attitude; we have a wrong attitude towards keeping our surroundings clean. It is part of my past time to clean my environment because cleanliness is next to godliness. I cannot afford to live in a dirty environment. When it started, we were giving prizes to the best schools, market, hospital premises and we went to inspect but these days, the civil servants are more corrupt than the politicians. The citizens complain about the politicians and the system but they do not contribute anything to the society. They leave everything to the government. My compound is always clean even though I have been in my house since the 70s. If the governor is living in a good and clean environment, what is preventing me from living in such an environment? I don’t have to wait for my government to clean my house. People should not be compelled to clean their houses but it is because we don’t have morals and all the standards have broken down.

What do you mean when you say that civil servants are now more corrupt than politicians?

The politicians do not have access to the treasury directly; so for them to take money from the treasury, they must use some people. Because these people subject themselves to be used by politicians and they are greedy, their hands are not clean. For instance, if their boss asks them to take N2m, they would take N3m and keep N1m for themselves. The civil servants would write down the N3m in the account books with spurious narrations and his boss cannot say he would not sign it because he has taken N2m already. Unfortunately, it is the people that suffer for it. I know that Awolowo and Chief Anthony Enahoro were best friends but when Awolowo was Minister of Finance and Enahoro was Minister of Information, Enahoro brought two Mercedes Benz cars and wanted to clear the two free of duty but Awolowo refused. He said that he could take one because he was a minister but he did not need two vehicles at the same time. Enahoro thought it was a joke but Awolowo did not change his mind because he himself would not do such.

Why did you not venture into active politics?

I am a Christian and I cannot lie. I cannot mortgage my conscience and I would never compromise. When you play politics, a lot of dirty games are involved. I am not an active politician but I support good governance. If one goes into politics, he would be a lone ranger and would soon be messed up. I did not want to lose my integrity and the truth of the matter is that a lot of us especially our leaders are suffering from A.I.D.S – Acquired Integrity Deficiency Syndrome. Of all the various governments we have, is there anyone talking about research and development? So what do I want to go and do in politics when I know that I will not add value to people’s lives? People are just there for the money and what do I want to do with all that money? Jakande still lives in Ilupeju and that was where he was living even when he was in government. I am not saying he is an angel but that is an example of a leader. When I was working in the accounts department of Texaco, I was incorruptible. I was in charge of the accounts and I paid people when due. Some that were impressed would say they wanted to come and ‘see’ me but I would tell them not to bother because I was only doing my job and paying them because they rendered a service. Everybody is selfish, greedy and corrupt. If you go into politics, you would mess up your name if you are not careful. When Funsho Williams said he wanted to go into politics, I told him he was too fine a gentleman to go into Nigerian politics. If he had been governor in Lagos, the state would have been a better place because he was involved in all levels of development in the state. He rose from a pupil engineer to become the director of roads and highways in the state. He later became a permanent secretary in the ministry of works. He became the commissioner for works and he was involved in a lot of development projects.

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Veteran actor, Kareem Adepoju, fondly referred to as Baba Wande, in this interview with ADEMOLA OLONILUA shares some of his life experiences

How did you get involved in acting?

I started acting when I was in primary school and I began with Baba Oyin Adejobi. Back when I was in Ansarudeen School, I was part of the pupils sent to the residence of Baba Oyin Adejobi to learn how to act. Then people would gather to watch us perform after the training and whatever money we made was used to pay our Malim (Arabic teacher). We acted plays like Adam and Eve, Joseph and his Brethren, among others. That was where I developed interest in drama. My family trade is tailoring and I was also involved in it but after leaving the modern school, I joined Oyin Adejobi. After my primary school, I travelled to the East to continue my education because that was where my mother was at the time. Due to the nature of our family business, it allowed for extensive travelling. After I was done with the modern school, I came back to Osogbo where I fully joined Oyin Adejobi. Then, my father had died.

When you were in the East, how were you able to communicate?

I understood and spoke Pidgin English fluently, so communication was not a barrier.

Didn’t you find any of the ladies appealing during your stay there?

Not at all, besides I was not really in the heart of Igbo land. I was at Agbor. I did not find any lady appealing there.

As someone that has spent 50 years on stage, did it occur to you that you would go this far in your career?

I just loved acting and always enjoyed it, I never knew it would turn out to be this big. Then, whoever was into acting was referred to as an unserious element, a lazy fellow with no future ambition. Even parents were against their children partaking in acting and many people I started with had to quit because their parents told them to do so. However, my case was different because my parents did not disturb me even though they did not like the profession. They didn’t stop me because I was still actively involved in tailoring which was our family craft. My father was hardly at home because he usually travelled to Ghana to get materials and he died when I was still young. So, this gave me a chance to do whatever I liked. I was about 20 years old when my father died in 1960. He died shortly after he came back from one of his trips.

What are some of the fond memories you have of your father?

I remember he used to talk to me not to be troublesome and that I should always remember the son of whom I am. It is the same advice that I passed on to my children. I told my children not to keep bad friends and desist from taking alcohol because I don’t drink, smoke or even eat kola nut. I have never taken alcohol in my life. Even if it is for acting purposes, I always use milk as palm wine and any malt drink as stout. As for kola nut, I just don’t like it.

After your father’s death, who was responsible for your upbringing?

I was fully into acting then and was taking care of myself. I did not need anybody to take care of me at that stage as I was already a man.

You are popularly called Baba Wande instead of your real name, Kareem Adepoju. How did you come about the nickname?

A professor based in Ilorin wrote a book titled Eleyi ti afi t’omo, which was later adapted to a play on the television. I played the role of Otokiti in the play. Otokiti had a wife and a daughter called Wande, and that is how they began to call me Baba Wande.

Some people believe the movie, Ti Oluwa ni ile, brought you to limelight, would you agree to that?

Only few people would say that Ti Oluwa ni ile made me popular. Those that had been watching my films for years before Ti Oluwa ni ile would tell you that I had been popular on the television before the film. Before then, I had done plays like Orogun Adedigba, Kuye, Ekuro oloja among others. I had been popular through television series before the advent of films. When we talk about films, they are right to say I became popular with Ti Oluwa ni ile. But people had been watching me on stage and on the television before the film came out.

How was the transition from stage plays to appearing on the television and eventually making films?

Oh beautiful. I started with acting on the stage but the advent of films killed stage plays. The sad part is that the crop of actors we have now did not pass through stage play where actors are supposed to train. They would not agree anyway because they are popular and they have money.

You seem more at home acting fetish or wicked roles in movies. Are you like that in reality?

Baba Wande is an actor who can interpret any role given to him but Alhaji Kareem is different from Baba Wande. It is when I am on the stage or on location that I am Baba Wande. In real life, I am a gentle man. Most times, people call me a comedian. I know it is a God-given talent to make people laugh. I do not do it intentionally.

Didn’t it ever occur to you to become a professional comedian?

It did not occur to me because I did not know I was funny. People always say I am funny. It is just my nature to make people laugh.

What was your aspiration in life as a kid?

Funny enough, I did not have any ambition as of then. Even as a pupil in Arabic school, I knew from an early stage in life that I loved to act. I never knew it could become a career that could put food on my table. I never dreamt that I could earn money from it to fend for my family. Of course, I knew I would act, I thought I would do another job by the side. I never really gave it a serious thought but I had hope in God that whatever he wanted me to become in life would come to reality.

What then happened to your tailoring profession which was your family vocation?

I did it for a while, then I left it to face acting full time.

With the disdain society had for acting profesion in those days, were you still proud to call yourself an actor?

Of course, I was very proud. I did not care about what they were saying then. I am always happy whenever I act and anything that gives me happiness is okay by me. It was fun when I started my acting career. Then people always greeted me whenever I passed by them and they called me the name of the character of any of the characters I acted. It was a happy feeling but at a stage, we all had to choose a permanent stage name because not all the roles that one acted were good.

Being an actor has undoubtedly brought you fame, but has it made you a rich man too?

It brought mainly popularity, not wealth but it is because of the country we live in. If Nigeria was a country that takes care of actors, we would all be living in affluence but the reverse is the case. It is those who did not work that are enjoying the fruit of our labour.

What do you mean by that?

We have the issue of pirates who frustrate us. The marketers also are there; they sell our movies but deny us our entitlement.

What can be done to change this situation?

Nothing can change because we are not united. The artistes are not united and the only way we can better our lives is by being united. Although there are associations, there is still no unity. In our industry, we have the Igbo, Hausa and Yoruba factions; can’t we speak with one voice? Even the Yoruba faction is not united, so nothing can change.

Why did you decide to live in Osogbo unlike most of your contemporaries who are based in Lagos?

It is because we are different and unique. Those of us who live here are not inferior to those in Lagos, although our business sells more in Lagos than anywhere else. The actors there are closer to the marketers than we are.

But don’t you think that may have affected you financially?

It is possible that if I were in Lagos, things could be better but I prefer where I am. I prefer to stay with my people.

How have you been coping with female admirers?

It is natural for ladies to flock around us because of the nature of our job. I have not had any crazy moment with ladies because I respect myself. I try my best to keep to myself.

Was there any time you felt like quitting especially when your profession was looked down upon by the society?

The only time I felt very low about my career was when I wanted to get married. Parents of those I wanted to marry refused to release their daughters to me for marriage. Because I was an actor, they thought I was not responsible. Though they later realised their mistake, I had moved on then. Besides that, there was never a time I wanted to quit. I am in love with what I do and you don’t give up on something that gives you joy and feeds you.

You sound so passionate about your job, what endears you so much to the profession?

It is simply because I always make people happy and anytime they see me, they make me happy too. I make them laugh and I love it.

Is any of your children taking after you?

They are all gainfully employed by the government. Some of them help me with my production when they have the time. I cannot force any of them to become actors. But thank God, they are doing well.

And you are not pained that none of them followed in your footsteps?

I am not pained at all because they are all doing fine in their chosen careers. Artistes suffer and I don’t want them to partake in such. But if they can study the business side of it, nobody can cheat them the way some of us have been cheated.

So, you have been cheated in this profession?

Yes. For instance, I once gave a marketer some of my works to sell for me and he cheated me. I took the case to court but after some time, I got tired of attending courts, so I let it go. The popular film, Ti Oluwa ni ile was the work of two of us but it is only one person that is selling it today.

But why did you not drag him to court?

It would mean going to court every day, how many years would I spend on earth when I spend most of my time in court? Let God be the judge.

How did you come up with the concept of the movie?

Tunde Kilani, a producer, director and cameraman is my friend and he asked me to come up with a story we could jointly develop and I wrote the story. He too contributed a lot and that was how the film came to be. Nobody could have envisaged the story would grow into a big film like that anyway.

What is your relationship with Tunde Kilani right now?

He is still a friend even though he is selling the movie and I am not getting my entitlement. Even when I needed the film, I had to buy it from him.

Why didn’t you sign a legal document before going into such a joint venture?

Then we would not have any film if there was an agreement to be signed because I had a story and he had the money. If I brought up any legal issue, we would not do the film because he would think I was being too smart.

You still call him your friend after this?

When I wanted to celebrate my 50 years on stage, I went to meet him and he gave me N50,000. He is still my very good friend and if he has a production, he normally invites me. Although occasionally, I ask him about my entitlement because he is the only one that is selling the movie and he tells me that he did not really make money from the film.

And you do not get hurt each time he tells you that?

I don’t let it bother me. The sad part is that I have many big stories but I cannot do a joint production with anybody again. I should have sourced for someone to jointly produce another big movie but I doubt they would want to do business with me because they know I am now wiser and I would involve lawyers this time.

Don’t you think you are depriving your fans from sharing some of your vast experience and ideas because they learn from your films?

They have been suffering for it for a while because there is a crisis in Association of Nigerian Theatre Practitioners and that is why I said we are not united. It has to do with the matter of the presidency of the association and those in the Lagos State Chapter made a rule that only those in Lagos can be president. If we support those they are against, they would not invite us to movie locations again. I haven’t featured in movies for sometime and my fans are suffering from it and there is nothing I can do about it. I am not bothered because I am involved in several television programmes.

Your job is time demanding but you have been able to raise a family. How were you able to do so?

I believe it is the Lord’s doing. I tried my best to provide for my family financially and also made sure my children were well educated.

How did you meet your wives?

My first wife is from Ekiti State. She came to Osogbo to do something and we met. We talked and shortly after we got married. My second wife is from Osogbo, I saw her, liked her and married her. I have a united household. I like the fact that they are very religious women, they are good Muslims.

Besides acting, what other businesses are you involved in?

I have no other business. Even tailoring that is my family trade, I had to quit it for acting because I did not have the time to do both.

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A former Acting Comptroller-General of Customs, Tayo Ogungbemile, tells Adeola Balogun and ‘Nonye Ben-Nwankwo about his days in customs and why his appointment was not confirmed

What have you been doing since you retired?

I retired in March 2004. The Sunday before the day I retired, I went to the church and there was an altar call. I gave thanks and gratitude to God because of His mercy. I retired as the acting comptroller- general of customs. I retired to my village thereafter. My village people didn’t waste time; they appointed me the chairman of the board of directors of the microfinance bank in my town. My wife also appointed me the chairman of the board of directors of her own company.

Didn’t you plan a specific thing you would do in retirement?

I am a serious minded person. I planned for my retirement even many years before I retired. I joined the service in 1972 and in 1977, I felt it was necessary for a customs officer to be a lawyer as well. Fortunately, the then director, Chief Oyebode Oyeleye, was very desirous of allowing real technical custom officers to be part of prosecuting custom cases. Those who had interest to read Law were encouraged to do so. That was my first retirement plan. I thought that if I became a lawyer while in service, I would not beg for food when I eventually retired.

So how busy are you in the court now?

No, no. I have no patience for that. The nature of our judicial system is not encouraging; adjournment today, another one tomorrow, it can be tiring. Then again, I know that cases of the Senior Advocates of Nigeria would be heard first before those of the junior ones. If I had started practising in 2004 when I retired, I would have started at the junior cadre. It is not pride but I don’t have such patience. I am not particularly happy about that area of our judicial system. Going to court is not my cup of tea.

You rose to almost the peak of your career

(Cuts in) I rose to the peak of my career. I even like to make myself happy by saying I rose to the very peak of my career.

But then, wouldn’t you have wished you were eventually confirmed as the Comptroller-General of Customs instead of the few months you were on the seat in acting capacity?

Naturally, I would have wished so. But then, talking sincerely, I didn’t pursue it as an ambition. It was by the divine grace of God and happenstance.

So how did it happen?

Once you attain the level of controller in Customs, you will feel happy, also knowing that you could be anything from there. I was the Area Controller of Murtala Mohammed International Airport. I cannot deny that some people in customs usually lobby to be in one position or the other. Some people were lobbying so that I would be removed as the Area Controller of MM Cargo. In the process, the then Sole Administrator, Brigadier General SOG Ango, sent somebody to MM Cargo without my knowledge. I just heard that some people were seizing prohibited goods. I called Ango and I told him that some people were in my territory and they were seizing goods and they had just denied customs from arresting the owner of the goods. I told him the action was unprofessional. I had to put my pen on paper and write all I knew about the incident. The man read my report and felt I was intelligent. Rather than removing me, he said I should come and assist him as a deputy comptroller general of customs. That was how I got to that position. Somebody wanted me to be in a serious problem but it turned around and promotion came out of it. I must confess that I am very prayerful.

How did you take the news?

Some people heard about it before me. When they told me, I said it wasn’t possible. They told me they were sure about the appointment but I wasn’t particularly happy. It then occurred to me that it was a serious matter. Then I said my prayers. I still remember the content of the prayer till today.

What did you pray for?

I said, ‘God, I did not join the service to go and assist a military administrator because they will leave one day and chances are that those who are part of their team would leave with them. God, I didn’t ask you to promote me but since you have promoted me, I am not ready to leave with the military administrator because we are not in the same profession.’

But were you not retired when the military administrator left?

No. Over the years, everyone that was part of the top management was retired along the head whenever there was change of leadership. Sometimes, it can be very laughable. The result is always predictable. They usually call it Customs Reform which means ‘cut off the head.’ By the time Ango left, every other person was retired except me but they appointed another man as the comptroller-general. I eventually learnt that the new comptroller-general said he would rather not take the position if they would retire somebody who was knowledgeable and intelligent. He insisted that I should stay.

But why do you think you were not confirmed?

I wasn’t deaf. I could still hear people’s comments. At that time, the CEO of Nigeria National Petroleum Corporation was (Engineer Funso) Kupolokun, a Yoruba man; the Inspector General of Police was (Tafa) Balogun, also a Yoruba man; the chairman of the Federal Inland Revenue Service was Joseph Naiyeju, a Yoruba person again. The governor of the Central Bank of Nigeria was Joseph Sanusi, a Yoruba person. The auditor-general was also a Yoruba person. You could imagine the pressure on the president. But I remember one Wednesday that I was going to church, the escort car following me behind was filled with armed officers. On my way back from church, I just wondered aloud, asking myself what kind of job I was doing that armed men would follow me around, even to church. I called my daughter, Tade. I told her about my experience and how about seven officers followed me to the church with guns. I told Tade that if the government didn’t confirm my appointment within 72 hours, I would resign. I was even crying when I was telling her. That Friday, on my way to Lagos, one informant called me to tell me to listen to the 9pm news. He said the president had appointed another person as the comptroller-general. My wife was with me at that time. I suggested that we should go back to Abuja but my wife suggested that it was better we heard the news in the comfort of our home. We listened to the news and there was nothing like that in the beginning . We waited and waited. I didn’t have the patience to continue listening to the news. I got up to leave. Just as I left, my wife called me back and that was when the newscaster read the news that the then President Obasanjo had appointed a new comptroller-general of customs. Immediately I heard that, I rushed to my prayer room with my wife and we were rolling on the floor.

Did you at any time feel that you weren’t confirmed probably because you were not in Obasanjo’s good books?

I was in his good books and I know why I say so. There are some misconceptions people have about him which I found out were not true, at least from my experience. People say Obasanjo doesn’t take other people’s opinion but that is not true. He once gave an instruction and it was passed through the Chief of Staff. I knew the decision wasn’t right and I had to write what I wanted. I went with my own view and I gave it to him. He read mine and asked me if I was coming to a meeting before the cabinet meeting. At the meeting, he told the minister that the instruction should be reverted to the way I wanted it. If there is a cogent, concrete and convincing reason for him to change his mind, he will do so. I can give you another instance. There was a time the then minister of finace, Alhaji Ciroma, said I should come and defend a technical issue. I was there and they listened to my argument. At that cabinet meeting, it was only one person that saw any sense in what I was saying. Obasanjo just told them, ‘You cannot win against customs, they killed my chickens.’ He just approved what I wanted. I learnt that day that whoever is leading Nigeria must have a sound mind. If Obasanjo weren’t sound, he would have listened to the majority.

Going down memory lane, why did you choose to become a Customs officer?

Customs was the last thing on my mind as a student union activist. I had wanted a situation where I would be influencing opinions and decisions. I didn’t do any interview. Our set was the luckiest. The Federal Public Service Commission started during our set of 1972. I had wanted to be a journalist. One day, my brother who is also my mentor told me that we should go to Federal Public Service Commission to see one of his friends that worked there. As we entered the elevator, we saw one man and he addressed my brother and said, ‘Ah! Supreme Superior!’ That didn’t mean anything to me that time. It was later that I knew that was my mentor’s appellation. He was the secretary of the Students Union at University of Lagos during his time. So the guy asked my mentor what he was doing at the office and my brother told him he wanted to see his friend. He told us that the guy was on leave. My brother told him the reason we wanted to see him. He was the one that informed my brother that they wanted to recruit into Customs Service. He directed me to another department to pick up a form. Getting there, somebody just shouted, ‘Number 2! What are you doing here?’ ‘Number 2’ was my own appellation when I was the vice president of the students union at the University of Ibadan. And so I picked the form. Customs was just a department then and they needed 20 customs Grade 2. I was number 20. That was how I got into customs. Initially, by the time we resumed, we saw people who had spent more than 10 years on one rank without any promotion. We heard about those who left. The department didn’t encourage graduates then. But I said I would have my promotions as at when due. And that was what happened.

There is this perception that almost everybody in customs is corrupt…

Each time I hear about this corruption stuff   in customs, it pisses me off. When you want to talk about corruption, you don’t isolate one profession from the other, you should talk holistically. You might laugh at this but I want to tell you that a Custom officer is one of the most patriotic Nigerians that you can ever have. If you want to experiment it, sack all the Custom officers and ask the military to take over. You will not see a customs officer auctioning goods to a fellow custom officer. You will not see him auctioning goods to his cronies. He would want to do it according to the rules.

Does that make them not to be corrupt?

That is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that you shouldn’t isolate it. It is an individual thing. An individual can choose to be corrupt at any time. When you are talking comparatively, you should just leave customs alone. I am not saying that it is an excuse to be corrupt because other people are corrupt. But there should be a revolution of our attitude in general. There should be a reorientation of values. Without attempting to make a controversial statement, I can say that oil theft is authority stealing. Poor people don’t know about it, they think about smuggling just a jerry can. But then, is it in financial institutions that we don’t have corruption? People should leave customs alone and think of how we should re-train our minds.

But so many people would have offered you bribe during your time in customs…

There was a time one person came to my office and I needed to take a decision. There was no way I could have taken that decision without the knowledge of the then comptroller-general. Of course, there was no way I could have contacted the comptroller-general in Abuja from Lagos. I was an area controller then. I told the person I would write a letter, which would have taken five days before I could get a response. These were goods that needed to be cleared in less than 48 hours. The man said I should call the comptroller general and I told him there was no telephone. The man asked us if we didn’t have a phone. I told him we didn’t. He then said that we should consider it that we had one. Within 24 hours, he got us a phone. It was during the time of ‘090’ phone lines. The price of mobile phones then was very expensive. To outsiders, it would look like corruption. But I wrote a letter to the comptroller general and told him that so, so and so person gave me a phone and that I would send it to him. He said I should retain it. Even with the authority he gave me, anytime I wanted to make a call, I would be dodging. There was a time I was at the Investigation Department; one man came to my office. I wouldn’t know who gave him my name. The guy said he was tired of staying in Germany. He had imported about 400 second hand German cars. He had problem clearing them. He had gone to so many places but he couldn’t clear the container and it was just accumulating demurrage. He came to me and I told him he didn’t have any problem. First, what he imported weren’t illegal, so there was no reason he should have difficulty clearing them. I told him what to do and his goods were cleared. He brought a custom built Mercedes Benz car and gave it to me as a gift. I was even afraid to use the car. So what I am saying is that you may not be corrupt but you may have the minimum comfort that would make people think that you are what you are not. I am not particularly happy when people associate corruption with customs officers.

Going down memory lane, during your time in the university, why where you an activist?

I have always wanted to be in a position where I can influence things even when I was in primary and secondary schools. I was the Labour Prefect and I made a mark. I was an indigent student at UI but that didn’t stop me from joining the students union. I have been lucky all my life.

How did you pay your fees then?

My mentor helped me to pay during my first year. In my second year, I benefitted from General Adebayo’s 100 per cent bursary. When the university authorities in Nigeria threatened that students who couldn’t afford to pay their fees wouldn’t be allowed to write their exams, I felt it was an opportunity to act as an activist. Remember I was the Vice President of SUG then. I, the president and the public relation officer decided to go to Lagos to see Chief Awolowo who was the Federal Commissioner of Finance. We didn’t even book an appointment to see him; we were so sure that he would see us since we were members of SUG. Of course, when we got to Lagos, we weren’t allowed to see him but we created a scene. Luckily, he came out and he took us into his office. We introduced ourselves and we told him our mission. In our presence, he phoned the then federal commissioner of education and told him, ‘I have before me, three students from the University of Ibadan claiming that they would not be allowed to write their exams because of school fees, please let them take their exams.’ We didn’t know the discussion from the other end but he told the person that they would ‘discuss’ later. He told us to go even when we wanted to doubt his sincerity. He assured us that his word was his bond and that we should go back that the whole thing would be sorted.

Was it sorted?

Oh yes. By 4pm that same day, it was announced on the radio that no university authority should send any student home because of failure to pay school fees. But there was another issue that would have put me in serious trouble. A university bulletin came out and said that all parties in school for that session were cancelled because of outbreak of cholera. How could they just cancel parties? We couldn’t take it. In my hall, the SUG President, me (the vice), the assistant secretary and the house secretary all stayed in there. So we formed a quorum. We said we weren’t going to take that. We prepared a draft and I can still recall what we wrote. We said, ‘We, 1970/71 SUG executive, will neither cancel nor postpone our hall party.’ We sent copies to school authorities including the Registrar. Eventually, we were told Prof Lambo wanted to see us in his house. We went there and he looked at me. Because I was the one that signed the letter, he picked it up and said, ‘Two of my children are in your class and you wrote this trash.’ I quickly thought of how we would handle the matter. He told us that it was the hall masters and wardens that took the decision not to hold the party. I told him that we would hold the party but that we wouldn’t invite any outsider. He said we should sign a guarantee and we did. He mentioned one of the lecturers who was part of the decision to ban parties in school. As stupid as we were, when we left his office, we marched down to the lecturer’s office to castigate him. That was the first party that we held at Zik Hall and it led to the death of one of us, Kunle Adepeju. If we had listened to the university authorities and not do any party, it wouldn’t have led to a crisis.

Didn’t you feel guilty that the party led to his death?

We were all in pains that it happened. When the police arrested the president and the vice of SUG, what do you think the students would do? And this was just shortly after the Biafra war. The students confronted the police and one of their missiles hit one of us. We gave him a befitting burial.

Were you a born again Christian when you were in the university?

Born again? I never entered the church all through my days in the University of Ibadan. I did more of that when I was with my father before I entered the university. My father was a staunch Christian. No way, I didn’t go to church.

Which means you really enjoyed life?

I did but I used to pray a lot and I received answers. That was enough for me.

Women would have got so much attracted to you especially when you were rising in position as a customs officer…

Of course, it happened. But then, right from when I was in secondary school, I have always had admirers. I was a goal keeper, I was popular. I was also in dramatic society. Girls were always around us. There was a time we went to Zaria. We had wanted the youth service programme to include military training. We didn’t know how the government realised that our anxiety to want military training had ulterior motive. Government then ensured that they didn’t include military training and even made sure that NYSC didn’t start from our set.

How were you as a child?

I was very restless. I had a mother who loved me so much. She used to tell me tales at night. I used to do wrestling with my peer group. My mother was a workaholic. I used to assist her to hawk her merchandise. I would trek for nine kilometers to hawk. I got frequent lashes of cane from my father and teachers for stubbornness.

As a young boy, was it not your dream to be a teacher?

My mentor and his elder brother were teachers. But in my own case, I was determined and almost desperate to ensure that I did not get into teaching career. How could I be dreaming of attending teachers training college? But my father didn’t believe in any other career apart from teaching, so I played along with him. When I finished Primary Six, he didn’t allow me to take any entrance exam. Instead, he sent me to secondary modern school. And it was then a fait accompli that you would teach if you attended modern school. I was very sad, I didn’t like it at all. When I was in Modern Three, I didn’t take the exam but instead, I took the exam for secondary school.

In less than a year, you will be 70, but you don’t look it.

It is just the grace of God. Then again, I indulge in spiritual and physical exercise. It was my wife that led me to become a born again Christian. I used to be a member of Chris Okotie’s church before I decided to go back to my orthodox church. I wouldn’t want my father to be angry with me. I also go to the club especially after I retired. I hardly drink. I would have loved to join my friends to drink but I lack the capacity. I have only been tipsy once in my life. And it was very embarrassing.

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Lekan Animasaun, popularly known as Baba Ani, is the leader of the late Fela’s Egypt 80 band. He tells ‘Nonye Ben-Nwankwo how he met the legend and the issues he has with Femi Kuti

Egypt 80 Band is one of the oldest bands in Africa, how come it has been able to survive this long?

Most of the bands that were formed in the early days of 1950 are no more. Then we had Rex Lawson and we also had Eddie Okonta’s band, Roy Chicago’s band and all others of blessed memory. It is correct to say that Egypt 80 is the oldest band. The band has outlived its owner and it is still waxing strong.

But how did the band manage to still be together even after the founder and owner, Fela, died?

I will say that the Almighty God has His hands in everything that concerns us. I believe it has been destined that the band will be running. After the demise of Fela, we went through a lot of difficulties. But we thank God that we are still together. Then again, those of us who were with Fela when he was alive were determined to stay put and stay together. After Fela’s death, his family (Kuti family) held a meeting with the band. At that meeting, the question of whether we wanted to keep the band came up and we answered in the affirmative. But they said nobody in the family was ready to support the band financially. The late Prof. Olukoye Ransome-Kuti was the spokesperson for the Kuti family. To them, the owner of the band had died, so that should be the end of the band and we should all go our different ways. But we insisted we wanted to stay together even without having any prior meeting amongst ourselves. We just decided there that we wanted to stay together.

So what did they say?

They said if that was our decision, that we should have it in mind that whatever we made would be what we would eat. We said we were okay with that. Then again, the determination of the members, particularly those who were still around after Fela died, was what really kept us together even till now.

It must have been very tough for the band, especially when the family said they would not support the band after the founder died…

It was not easy at all. There was a time we were having shows at the Shrine before it was taken over by the owners of the land. Even at that time, the crowd kept dwindling. At times, we would play at Ojez at Onike (Lagos) and after the show, we would be sharing N250 or even less than that. Many times I had to tell the members to share the money amongst themselves and bothered less about me. Seun’s mother sometimes would add money to what we made so that members could at least get transport fares back to their homes. We went through hell. In fact, immediately after Fela’s death, his first son, Femi, took all the instruments and locked them up in his house.

Why did he lock them up?

He said he was doing that for “safe-keeping” when the band was still performing. We had to be hiring equipment to perform each time we had any engagement.

How did you get them back eventually?

It took two years and with the effort of Chief Rasheed Gbadamosi for him to agree to release the equipment. Chief Gbadamosi called a meeting at Hotel Tropicana in Ikeja. I remember there was a show that night; Chief Gbadamosi was there, Yeni and Femi were there too and we had a meeting. Gbadamosi asked me to go and collect the equipment. Femi said I should return the equipment to his father’s house at Kalakuta in Ikeja. Gbadamosi gave me money to hire a truck and fuel my car and I went to collect the equipment and we itemised everything. Fela’s younger brother, Dr. Beko Ransome-Kuti, was still alive. He was the manager of the band at that time even before Fela died. I took the instruments to him at his Anthony Village (Lagos) house. When I got there, he was annoyed. He said I didn’t consult him before going to collect the equipment. He said the family had a meeting after Fela’s death and decided that whoever wanted to use the equipment amongst Fela’s children would pay a token of N10, 000. I then told him I would return the equipment and when he asked me who I would mention that asked me to return the equipment, I told him I knew the story I would tell.

Did you return them?

Oh yes I did. I returned them to Fela’s house as instructed by Femi. The band didn’t even want the equipment any longer because we were already hiring equipment each time we wanted to play. Thereafter, we started getting our own equipment in trickles. We went through a lot of difficulties. A member of the family (I don’t want to mention the person’s name) actually said that when we started drinking garri, every one of us would know it was time to go back to our fathers’ houses. There was a day we were playing at Channel 10 Night Club at Surulere (Lagos) back then and power went off and people started mocking us. They said we were used to suffering. But I thank God today, I am the happiest member of the band. Fela made me the band leader in 1979 and since then, I have been leading it up till now. Today, even places Fela didn’t go, we have been there. We have been all over the world including the US, UK, India and Japan.

Was it through Seun that you travelled all over the world?

Seun is now the leader of the band. But when Fela died, he was a young boy. I was leading the band. I am still leading the band but Seun is the owner of the band. So, I am still working with him. We just came back from a tour of six months. No band has ever done that in Nigeria. We didn’t go there to do drugs or use women for pimping. We went to do our work which is music. We had to tell our manager to postpone some of the shows till March next year. Originally, we were supposed to go for a three-month tour. But the shows kept coming. The first time I went out on such a long tour was when Fela was alive. We left Nigeria in June 1969 and we came back after the Civil War in 1970. We spent nine months in the US.

What’s your relationship with the other Fela’s children, Femi and Yeni?

The relationship is nothing to write home about. If you look at the Museum, you will notice that my picture and that of Tony Allen are not there. Instead, you see pictures of Fela with his women and some of his friends. Fela didn’t make himself; we were all there with him through the thick and thin to make his name and become what he eventually became before he left this world. Our pictures not being there is a deliberate attempt to rewrite Fela’s history. After Fela’s death and after the children settled the rift amongst themselves, the first time the band and Seun went to play at the Shrine, they went to Femi’s office to greet him. He said a lot of things about the band, saying that the band deserted him instead of saying that he deserted the band. He said the enmity between him and the members of the band would continue for ever. Somewhere along his address, he asked the members of the band, ‘where is that your Baba Ani?’ They told him I wasn’t around because I decided not to go there. He told them to tell me not to show my face at his shrine. Since then, anytime the band goes there to play, I will not be there. It is just like a child that is born today saying he wouldn’t want to play with us, doesn’t that child know that even before he was born, we were playing with some people? I am very glad that without them, people even outside Nigeria still recognise us. They still give us the honour that is due to us. I once told a friend who went to ask them why our pictures were not in the museum and they said they looked around and they couldn’t find a picture. That was their lame excuse, can you believe that? Anyway, when we meet outside, we do greet. I just don’t go to their Shrine, though Seun always pays me each time they go there.

How did you meet Fela?

I studied music under my teacher, Chief Chris Ajilo. He was the leader of the defunct Nigeria Broadcasting Corporation Dance Orchestra. Late Pa Sowande was the director of the band. Somewhere along the line in 1961, he introduced me to the NBC Dance Orchestra. I was interviewed and I was taken as a member of the band playing the baritone sax and tenor sax. At that time, Fela was a producer at NBC. Benson Idonije was also a producer. We always had our rehearsals every Monday and Wednesday. It was during one of those rehearsal days that I met Fela. I had a break and I was going to the canteen and I had to pass through the reception. I saw Fela. A few days before, I had read in the papers that Fela was about to form a highlife band. So I went to him and introduced myself to him. He asked me if I had my equipment and I said yes. He gave me an appointment to meet with him at his house. He and some members were rehearsing. I met Tony Allen and some others there. I met Benson Idonije too. Fela gave me the baritone part and I took it, set up my instrument and I started. He just looked up at Benson Idonije and said, I will take this man.’ That was how we started. This was in 1965.

So before then, you weren’t doing anything else?

I was working with the government as an environmental health officer. At the same time, I was working with Fela. Fela was so good. He wouldn’t encourage me to resign my appointment. He made allowance for me to perform my official work. After his house was burnt by the Nigerian Army, we relocated to Ghana. He had his own hotel with his women and boys who were serving him. I had a room in the hotel. Every Friday, after my official work, I would take a flight to Accra. I would meet the band playing and I would just join them and I would head back to Lagos on Monday morning. Apart from the fact that I was useful in the band, Fela was so good to me. He was the one footing my flight bills.

So when did you resign from the government work?

I never resigned. I spent 35 years in service. I joined in 1961 and I retired in 1996 after 35 years. I was lucky with colleagues in my department in the office. They loved me and they loved Fela. I am grateful to my colleagues because they were there for me.

How did you develop interest in music?

When I was a little boy, I learnt from my elder brother that I loved to sing even before I could pronounce words distinctively. He told me that I would hold his hands and take him to a spot near the lagoon and I would be singing for him. My brother eventually left Nigeria for London where he spent about 22 years. Chris Ajilo was his friend at that time. He was the one that gave me a letter of introduction to Chris Ajilo. I told my brother that I wanted to play music. He sent two instruments – a trumpet and a baritone sax–to me. I took the baritone sax and the introduction letter to Ajilo. He took me in as a student and I was paying him two pounds ten shillings monthly. He took me through the theories and practice of music. When he saw I was competent enough, he put me in his own band. His band was the resident band at the Federal Palace Hotel, Lagos in the 60s. He took me in as a member of his band in 1959. I was in the last year of my secondary school. That was how I started playing music.

Fela was always linked with one controversy or the other, especially with women and drugs; didn’t such affect you as well?

I would say it didn’t affect me. At the time I knew him, he wasn’t taking any drug; he was just taking soft drinks. I loved his policies. He didn’t tolerate stealing and lying. He was a very hard working man. After his house was burnt, he was hurt. His leg and hands were broken but he would still come for rehearsals with those broken bones. He would still play at the nightclub. He was a very meticulous man. He would always document everything. I loved his politics. I was destined to work with him. Like Jesus had his disciples, I was made Fela’s disciple. I didn’t live with him, though. I was already married. But he played at my marriage ceremony. For many reasons, I admired and cherished him. I was not involved in all the time the police raided his house. It was either I had gone before they got to his house or I was away at work. God was always making it possible for somebody to hold the forte whenever he was taken to prison.

Did you ever consider forming your own band or even becoming a vocalist?

I used to have the idea. But after some time, I felt the time was not ripe. At that time, it was difficult for anybody to form a band. There was money issue. People would not work for you without money. We would need equipment to hire and it wasn’t easy. Then again, it wasn’t easy to get dedicated people to work with. Every time I had the dream, I looked at the circumstances and I would shelve the idea.

Fela loved plenty women, did the lifestyle rub off on you?

Hardly can you see a musician who doesn’t like women. Even if you don’t like them, they will come to you. It is left for you to use your sense to be focused to know what you are after. At that time, I had my girlfriends among the singers and dancers. But I didn’t have as many as Fela.

Was it by choice that you became a polygamist or it happened through some circumstances?

Even if you don’t ask women, they will still come around you. Then again, I am a Muslim and the religion allows for more than three or four as long as you can cater for them. I had only two at a time. Eventually, one had to go and I was with my first wife. I am still with her, though she is not living with me. She built her own house in Sango (Ogun State). We stayed there together when I was building my house in Lagos. It was just a few years back that I got another wife. I wouldn’t even call myself a polygamist because I don’t even have more than one at a time.

Was it that your parents were so comfortable that they could afford to train you in school?

It was by the grace of God. My father died before I could reach primary school age. It was just my mother and my father’s twin sister that trained me. I first went to a primary school at Lagos Island. Then, when I was getting too rascally, I was taken to a cousin in Epe (Lagos). After Epe, I was sent to Oshogbo to stay with my mother’s immediate younger brother. I went to All Saints School, Oshogbo. In 1954, an incident happened and I was expelled from the school, I was brought back to Lagos. The family had a meeting and they said I should go and learn a trade. My mother called me and asked me what I would want to do. I told her I wanted to go back to school. She got me a primary school at Tinubu in Lagos Island. After that, I was admitted at National High School, Ebutte Meta. It was my last year at the school that I started learning music. I got an appointment in 1961 as a health officer. But all along, I was educating myself. I was taking correspondence courses with schools in London. I took my ordinary level GCE and I passed. I took the advanced level and I also passed. I also got promoted at work.

So why didn’t you use your qualifications to further your education?

I actually applied at the University of Lagos to study Law and I was admitted without taking any exam. I got direct entry. This was in 1979. I was there for about two years. But something happened that took me out of the university. I didn’t really know what life was all about when I was admitted. I went telling people that I got admission. They were all happy and of course, some of them pretended to be happy. I didn’t get hostel accommodation so I was going for lectures from my house. Somewhere along the line, I got so ill. It was so bad to the extent that whenever I was taking my bath, the water would be pinching me like needles. I didn’t want my mother to panic, so I didn’t tell her. So when I told her and my family members, they went to ‘search’ and found out what happened. They came back to tell me to withdraw from the school so that the sickness would go. I withdrew. Even at that, I didn’t withdraw voluntarily. The sickness had affected my education. I performed very poorly, so they wrote to me and said I should withdraw.

Don’t you feel saddened by that?

I do feel sad but at the same time, I have it in mind that whatever will be will be. I am glad my little experience in the Faculty of Law is helping me to deal with people and situations.

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Veteran Nollywood actor, Taiwo Obileye, shares some of his life experiences with Ademola Olonilua

At a time, all your siblings were actors, was it planned?

It was not planned; it just happened. Each of us got into the profession and that was it.

Right now, it is only you and your brother that are left, why did the others quit?

One of my sisters is now a medical doctor while the other one that was involved with the media is married now and she is a pharmacist. She lives abroad.

How did you discover your love for acting?

I really don’t know. There was an opportunity for me to act in school and I took it. I liked the experience and I thought I could do it and people also encouraged me. When other opportunities to act came, I seize them. I did two major productions, one in my junior school days and the other during my last year in school. I did not think of building a career in acting. My goal was medicine. But by the time I got to the university, the acting bug had bitten me. When I realised that I could not become a doctor, I began acting at the Art Theatre at the university with my brother who was also there doing a course in drama. So it was not really a planned decision.

What happened to your dream of becoming a doctor?

A few things got in the way. The first was that I had to pass physics and other science related subjects. I passed the other science subjects but I did not pass physics and because of that, human medicine was out of the way. The other option I had was veterinary medicine but I did not want that because the course did not appeal to me. I later studied agriculture, biochemistry and nutrition at the University of Ibadan.

What were your undergraduate days like?

Very nice. That was an interesting and exciting moment of my life. I was a very gentle young man just the way I am now. I was not rascally and I loved to read novels and participate in sports. I played football for my faculty and hall, Independence Hall. I also played basketball for the university. By the time I went back for my postgraduate diploma, I was the captain of the team. It did not mean that I was the best player; they considered my age and length of time in the team. Accommodation was very good and we had two people in a room. There were cafeterias and we had our meals on time with good menus. The atmosphere was very nice and there were no crises that could cause the university to close down. You could calculate when you would be out of school unlike now when students’ unrest and lecturers’ strikes would disrupt the school calendar.

Being the captain of the basketball team and a football player, you must have been popular among the ladies…

I was not popular among the ladies. I had a girlfriend and that was it.

How were you able to act and still face your studies?

That did not pose any problem for me. Acting comes naturally to me and if you have an interest in anything, you would be able to accommodate it with whatever you are doing.

What was it like being brought up by a magistrate father?

Although my father was a magistrate, he was not too strict. He was a very accommodating and good father. He gave us good advice but if he laid down rules, you had to adhere to them just like any other home. I benefitted a lot from the upbringing I had from both my parents even till now.

What of your mother?

She is dead now. She was a headmistress of a primary school. She also taught in some secondary schools. She was a very loving and religious woman. She was Catholic while my father was Anglican. She brought us up in the Catholic faith particularly at our early years when our father travelled to England to study and we had to go to church with our mother. We got baptized in the Catholic Church but right now, some of us have moved to other denominations. She raised us to the best of her ability and infused good values in us. She also taught us to live together as a family and there is great love and respect among us.

Shortly after you finished from school, you got a job at the Federal Department of Fishery as a Research Officer before you joined the Nigerian Television Authority. How were you able to move from fishery to NTA?

I had been doing a lot of acting in the university in Ibadan with some of them showing on television. When I graduated, I worked in Ibadan as a teacher for a few years and since I had a bit of free time, I continued acting. Eventually, I came to Lagos and got a job with the Federal Department of Fishery, (now National Institute for Oceanography and Marine Research) which was right next to NTA. My brother was in Lagos and was already acting on television alongside some of my peers from UI who were also in the drama department of NTA. Since I was unmarried and I had time, it was only convenient that I join them in some productions. That was how I made the switch eventually.

Between fame and fortune, which one has acting brought you?

Only a few actors can say that this profession has brought them fame and fortune. I have not made any fortune from acting but as for fame, I know people recognise me from the different productions that I have been involved in over the years. It makes me feel good that I am recognised particularly from the regular people on the street. I am happier when a bus driver recognises me. Acting has brought me satisfaction and fulfillment and it is good to know that I can deliver on the character I am asked to act.

How much were you paid for your first movie role?

I really cannot remember but I know it was not much back then. We were not doing it for the money but for the love of the profession.

When NTA started the New Village Headmaster with you, Jide Kosoko and others, many people also expected to see the likes of Dejumo Lewis, why was he excluded?

I do not know if he was invited or not but I know one would expect that he would be involved in the New Village Headmaster. I think there were some occasions before the programme began when he was involved in talks with NTA but I don’t know why he did not eventually get any role. However, the New Village Headmaster is not based in the same location, Oja village, like the previous one. If there is no Oja Village, there cannot be an Oloja of Oja. There might be confusion if the Oloja in the original Village Headmaster was appearing again as another character in the New Village Headmaster. Also, there could be some problems with the audience accepting him in a new role, so I think that might be some of the things that the producers thought about before making their decision. When I appeared in the New Village Headmaster, it was not a major role and I don’t think it would register in the minds of the viewers.

Don’t you think he would feel betrayed by you?

It was not in my position to impose an actor on the producer. I was invited to do productions on my merit and I did so. It is not for me to say I would not act if a certain person is not brought to the production. It is not done by anybody. The part I did was not a major role and I don’t think he would feel betrayed.

Don’t you think that if you had remained in the Federal Department of Fishery, you would be richer than you are now?

I don’t think so. I would get my salary but you cannot be rich based on your salary except you are working for certain organisations like NNPC. In NTA, we were getting paid like any normal civil servant and I stayed there until the mandatory retirement having worked for 35 years in the service. I added my years in NTA, Fishery, and also teaching and I retired before I was 60 years old. I would not have been richer because I would just be getting my salary and maybe a bag of rice as bonus at the end of the year. Even if I sold that, it would not fetch me any significant amount of money. That is not to say that I am rich from acting.

What was your relationship like with your other siblings especially when your father was studying abroad?

We have been a closely knit family. We respect one another and in our family, we call each other by name although some other families use ‘brother’ or ‘sister’ to address their elder ones. Even though we call each other by name, we still use the Yoruba pronoun ‘e’ for somebody who is older. There was never any form of disrespect from the younger ones. We shared jokes and had the same set of friends. It has to do with the upbringing our parents instilled in us.

Do you have friends or you see yourself as a recluse?

I have friends. I have a good robust family life and I went to school with some people who are still my friends. I have also made new friends over the years. I have a large circle of friends.

What secondary school did you attend?

I attended Ijebu Ode Grammar School. I was born in Lagos like most of my siblings. When my father became a magistrate, we moved to Ibadan in 1954. At a point, he was transferred to Warri.

Was there any time you felt like quitting acting?

There was never a time I thought about quitting because when I started, I was not doing it full time. I was acting while I was working at the Department of Fishery. If the movie roles came, I did them and if they did not, I faced my work. Even when I retired, I never struggled to get a role. I was also preoccupied with some other things like I was a consultant to UNICEF on broadcasting for about two years after I left NTA. I have also done some training sessions for some media organisations. It has never occurred to me to quit.

Was there a time in your life that you succumbed to peer pressure?

I tried smoking while I was in secondary school. I experimented for a day and I figured that smoking had all negative and no positive sides because there would be tobacco smell on the hand, hair, teeth and one was literally burning money. There was also the health hazard that had been spoken about that smokers are liable to die young. I figured that there was nothing positive to gain from it, so I was never a smoker. I take alcohol but I drink responsibly. Maybe once or twice, I have over-indulged myself while taking alcohol but luckily for me, it did not end in a disaster. I am not a saint or celibate, I have had girlfriends along the line.

Was there a time you ever had more than one girlfriend at a time?

If it ever occurred, it was not often because I had other things I was preoccupied with, so such hardly happened. The ladies did not flock around me. I was friends with some ladies but it was not sex based. I have some female friends who later became the wives of my friends and we are still close.

Your trademark seems to be your beard. How did you come up with the look?

I used to have side burns and shave my beards but over time while still in the university, whenever I shaved, I had bumps. I tried using shaving cream, electric razor but I kept having bumps and rashes, so I decided to leave the beards to grow. It has been like this for over 30 years.

What attracted you to your wife?

She was a pretty young lady and she was very chic. She dressed well and the year before I met her, she had just spent a year abroad as a foreign exchange student. She was very nice and friendly and I got attracted to her. The feeling was mutual and that was how it blossomed. It was a natural progression.

How did you propose to her?

I just asked her if she would like to get married. There was nothing like going down on one knee. We courted for about five years and neither of us exhibited any regret in the relationship. So, the next thing for us was to get married.

Are any of your children into acting?

One of them studied Theatre Arts but I think he has lost interest now. Another who did film production is putting it on hold.

If none of your children had shown interest in acting, would you have been bitter?

Absolutely not, it is their life and their choice to make.

So as they kept their acting career on hold, it is fine with you?

Yes. It is their life and it is what they want to do. If they are happy with what they are doing, so be it. Acting is something you can always come back to at any time. It is not that they have lost it, they can always go back to it or not, depending on what they want to do. It is absolutely their decision to make and ours is just to point out the right direction to them.

How were you able to find time to take care of the family?

Acting is not an everyday thing. I don’t act everyday or for 24 hours and even though I go out at night with friends, ultimately I have to go back home to my family. On a scale of preference, I also had to know that I had to be there for my family even when work took me out of my station because in my line of work at NTA, I was a producer and a commentator and we used to cover events outside Lagos. For many years, I was involved in that and I tried my best to be there and let my family know that I would always be there for them.

What is the most painful moment you have had in your life?

That would be when I lost my parents. It was very painful, particularly my mother because I was there when she died.

What was her last word to you?

She had just come back from a treatment at the hospital and had become unconscious, so she was admitted. She was not really aware that I was there. I just went to Ibadan to visit her and it happened. Her ailment was heart related, she had heart failure and she was 83 years old. I went to the hospital to see her only to realise that she was already unconscious, so I just stayed at the bedside with my sisters. One of them had just gone to get the medicine from the pharmacy at University College Hospital, Ibadan, but before she came back, she had died.

What was your happiest moment?

That was when I got married to my wife. It was the happiest day of my life.

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Rev. Samuel Abidoye, the spiritual father and Chairman of the Cherubim and Seraphim Movement Church Worldwide (Ayo ni o), tells ‘NONYE BEN-NWANKWO about his days as a young man and how he formed the C&S Church in the UK

You spent over 40 years in the UK yet you came back just to be the head of the Cherubim and Seraphim Church in Nigeria, why did you choose to do so?

Right from the time I was young, I had made up my mind that any work I was given that is related to God’s work, I would not hesitate to do it. After all, I didn’t create myself; it was God that created me. I will do anything He wants me to do.

But were you involved in the C&S in the UK?

Oh yes. In fact, I can say that God sent me overseas mainly to start a church. I did many things in the UK but the first thing on my mind was to do God’s work. When I was going to England in 1961, I asked friends if there was a C&S Church in England. But I was told there was nothing like that.

Weren’t you discouraged?

No. When I was going, I still went with my praying gown and I travelled by sea to England. I left Nigeria on January 5 and I got to England January 20. I got to England the year John. F. Kennedy became the president of the US.

But why did you even travel to England in the first place, was it to start the church?

No. I was in England to do photography or something like that. I had an old mother at home and my intention was just to do whatever I could and rush back home. While at sea, I fasted more than three times.

Weren’t you scared that the ship could sink?

Let me confess to you, the captain of the ship gave a testimony, which he didn’t even know he was doing. He told us that he had been sailing that line for 32 years and each time at a place called Bay of Whisky, there would always be turbulence that always shook the ship. Even before we got there, he had told us a ship sank at that particular place the previous day. But when we got there, it was so calm to the extent that the captain had to testify. But I knew in my heart that God was just doing his wonders.

Tell us about your early days in England.

I got there in 1961 and in 1963, I bought a house on mortgage. I reserved a room for church service which I called the Praying Room. I had it in mind that I would ask any member of the C & S Church coming to England to come and join me in prayer at the Praying Room. Two of my relatives came around 1964 and we started having house fellowship.

But was the idea behind all this to form a church?

No. We just wanted somewhere we could just stay and pray but it became known to everybody that we were running a church. I continued to be there until it became a full church.

Weren’t you working then?

I was working and I asked my employers to give me some time off. But they said I should choose between work and God. So I told them I would choose God. What is their work? I never regretted the action because God has been good to me.

But you weren’t so young when you eventually came back to Nigeria; didn’t you feel the church should have appointed a younger person instead?

When you are committed to what you want to do, nothing will stop you. I made up my mind and I knew that God would provide. Enjoyment is nothing when you have God. Most Christians are no longer looking for God but money. But that doesn’t bother me. I am not looking for money. At my age, what do I need money for?

Before you went to the UK, were you among the top hierarchy in the church?

No, I wasn’t but I had God. I remember in 1945 when I was working with the Railway, I used to help an old man who was in charge of selling tickets. One day, I asked him why he hadn’t gone home. He said he was trying to do the job and balance his accounts. I told him I would help him and I did. I told him to be calling me each time he needed to balance his accounts. He offered me money and I refused. One day, he called me and said he would give me ‘something’ in exchange for my kindness to him. He said he would give me something from ‘ogboni’ fraternity. I told him that where I belonged was stronger than his Ogboni. I told him I was a member of C&S Church. In those days, I must confess, God was always talking to me personally and I was very close to God. I had confidence in what I was doing, nothing got me afraid.

But were you born in a C&S family?

No, I was born in a family of hunters. My forebears worshiped Ogun, the god of iron. But then again, when I was born, there was really no church in my town. We eventually had one around 1927 and I was born in 1922. I couldn’t have been born in a Christian home. My parents were pagans. I was baptised in the Anglican Church in 1936 but I changed to C&S Church in 1938. I had a cousin, Peter; he was a very religious man and I admired him so much. It was my love for him that took me to C&S because he was a member of the church.

So how did you become a Christian?

It happened miraculously. At about 1930, a school was opened in my town in Kwara State. I went to school in 1934. I was converted to a Christian in the school. They didn’t force us to be Christians. Those who wanted to continue being pagans were not disturbed either. But I was converted and I loved it.

How was growing up?

I am from a royal family. My father had a horse and he always carried me in the front whenever he rode on the horse. He had many wives. My father loved me a lot; I look so much like him anyway. He never allowed me to go to the farm. People complained that he would spoil me. My brother was among the first set of pupils in the school established in my place. He used to come home with drawings and I loved those drawings. I would always tell him I wanted to go where they taught him to draw. That was how I started school.

Was your home peaceful since your father had many wives?

My home was very peaceful. In those days, polygamy was the in-thing. Then, if you wanted to be rich, you needed to have so many children. You would marry as many wives as possible to get so many children who would go to the farm and work for you. It is not like now when fathers work for their children. Then, children worked for their fathers. Then, all the wives were the same to us. We were a happy family.

Why did you leave your job at the Railway Corporation?

London would have been the last place I would have wanted to go. I had a cousin who left Nigeria in 1956 and travelled overseas. When he told me to come over, I told him I wasn’t coming to England. But when God decides something for you, nobody can change it. I didn’t think of going to England. In 1957, the railway was sold to a company. Those that wanted to continue working with the government were posted to other departments while those that wanted to leave were retired. I came from the North. Kwara State was seen as part of the North then. I refused to go to another department and I chose to get my pension.

Why?

There was hardly any good education beyond Middle 4 in the region then. I had my Middle 4 and the North was looking around for people for employment. Then, it was people in the South that were in control of government. The North wanted people from Northern Nigeria to come and work for them. One of my cousins then advised me to go back to the North, that they were looking for people with Middle 4. When I called a friend who was in Kaduna and told him of my plans, he said I should come and assured me that I would get a job as soon as I got there.

Weren’t you married then?

I was but I didn’t take my family to Kaduna. I left my wife with my family in my hometown and I went alone. But when I got there, I met a different situation. The man that told me to come to Kaduna wasn’t of help any longer; I didn’t get a job when I got there. I went to different offices and yet there was no job. But I so much believed in God then and I could talk to God one on one. Then, I was a tithe recorder in my church and was so much involved with the church in Kaduna. But then, I decided to go back home when I remained jobless for a long time. I told the wife of my friend who I was living with that I was going back to Ilorin. I said I was sure to get a job when I got home. Even though I had only one pound left with me, I was determined to return to Ilorin. As I was talking to my friend’s wife, I fell into a trance and I saw the heavens opening up and I heard a voice that told me, ‘don’t go back!’ I had to tell my friend’s wife that I wasn’t going home again since I heard a voice that said I shouldn’t. Just five minutes later, there was a knock on the door. It was Justice Owolabi. He told me that they were employing people in Agriculture (ministry). He said I should go there. When I got there, I found out that the highest level of education they could get was Standard 6. When the man heard that I had Middle 4, he was thrilled. I was given employment immediately. I started working there until trouble started again.

What kind of trouble?

Back home in Ilorin, my brother belonged to an opposition party in the North. Unfortunately, the opposition won and displaced some people. It took over the councillorship in my town. The man who was displaced as a councillor was transferred to Kaduna and was in the Human Resources section of my department. The Briton I was working with recommended me for promotion in a letter to the department. The file eventually got to the displaced councillor’s table and instead of approving my promotion, he recommended that I should be demoted to the position of an ungraded clerk. I was a Station Master then in the Railway Corporation and I was already earning good money. You can imagine it when somebody suggested I should be returned to a lower position as an Ungraded Clerk.

So what did you do?

There was an advertisement by the Ministry of Information. They wanted to send somebody to England to learn photography. But all the applications needed to pass through the table of that same displaced councillor. So I remained as an Ungraded Clerk. I had to start looking for a way to get out of the country. I eventually left with a British passport.

You became a strong Christian at a young age; did you do all the stuffs young boys usually do?

I was very religious at a young age. Going to parties wasn’t part of my life. My elder brother wanted me to study, he never encouraged me to play or hang out with friends. I didn’t even have so many friends when I was growing up. I left school in 1944 and I got married in 1949.

So how did you meet your wife?

My parents were putting pressure on me to get married. They were so worried about me. I came from a royal family and it was unusual for me not to be married at that age. But I couldn’t find any wife. My uncle was so disappointed. People thought I was a eunuch. But I didn’t care; their opinion wasn’t my cup of tea. When I eventually felt I needed a wife, I had to fast. I prayed and I told God to show me my wife. That night, I dreamt I was in a kitchen and a woman was preparing a meal for me. It was an unknown face.

Didn’t you have a girlfriend at all?

I had a friend and we were so sure we would marry. On Sundays, we would dress up and go out and play around. But I didn’t know anything about sex then. The relationship was very clean. I loved her so much and I had made up my mind I was going to marry her. She had the same opinion too. But she wasn’t the person I was shown in the dream. The one in my dream was a light-skinned girl while my friend was completely dark-skinned. I felt the dream was wrong. But then, I got an urgent message from my girl’s aunty that she should come home because her father was very ill. So she had to leave the station and see her father.

Didn’t you hear from her again?

No! That was the end of the relationship. I never got any news from her at all. It was just a waterloo for me. I kept hoping she would come back but I never heard from her. I stayed at that station for one year before I left on transfer to another station at Iju Junction. I was selling tickets there. One day, somebody just said, ‘I want a ticket.’ Just as soon as I heard the voice, I was taken back to the dream I heard about a girl that was cooking for me. I hadn’t even seen the face of the person that wanted to buy a ticket. But I knew she would be the same girl I saw in my dream. I said, ‘Okay, can I see your face?’ When I looked at her, she was the same woman I saw in my dream. So I knew she was going to be my wife.

Was it that easy to make her your wife?

There were so many suitors who wanted her as a wife. She was very beautiful and well trained. She had no mother and she was a teacher then. I didn’t even think she would marry me. But one day, one man called her and told her that if she missed me, she would have missed out on something great. I was loved by many people at our station as well. Eventually, we got married in 1949.

I am sure you know that some people have aversion about white garment churches…?

Except one is thinking otherwise, you would know the reason we wear white. Our name signifies angel’s name. Have you seen an angel wearing black? If our church continues to bear the names of an angel, then we have to dress like them. God talks to us.

What if your children want to be like you?

God calls anybody he wants to call. Some of my children go to different churches while some of them attend this church. It is not compulsory that as He called the father, He would also call the son.

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Chief Kayode Williams is the second son of the late legal icon, Chief FRA Williams. In this interview with Eric Dumo, the younger Williams speaks on his life as a farmer while also sharing some of the most memorable events that have shaped his journey

You are into farming, how and when did you start the journey?

It started in the 1960s when I used to help my late mother with her poultry farm. I soon developed an interest in farming from there. It wasn’t easy for me especially coming from a family of lawyers. I am the second son of late Chief Rotimi Williams. While in school, I was very good at the art subjects but I had the passion for farming. So, I went to England for my A levels and then to Holland to do tropical, sub-tropical and temperate agriculture. After that, I did my specialisation course in animal husbandry and I majored in pigs and poultry and also feed milling technology. I came back to Nigeria in September 1971 and I have been actively involved in farming since then.

Under the Gbolahan Mudasiru regime in Lagos, he had a very capable commissioner, Mr. Alesinloye Williams, who decided to assist farmers through a scheme he called Agricultural Credit Input Scheme. Under that, farmers got improved seedlings and were also given tractors on easy payment terms. This was in 1984. The tractor I bought at the time which is still working perfectly today, 30 years after, was N45, 000 and I remember I used to pay N3, 000 quarterly. I remember that I had to pay N15, 000 in a year because we were given three years to complete the payment for the tractor.

I am proud to say that because of my background and training as an agriculturist, I know what to do to maintain the engine of my tractor. The maintenance culture is very poor in this country. The ministry after only five years packed up all their tractors. At that time, people were saying that Fiat products were not good but I disagreed. The Italians might not be as strong as the French or British militarily but when it comes to mechanical technology, they are very advanced. The greatest sports car in the world is the Lamboghini made by Italians. So, Italians are very good in this regard. As for the tractor, I know when to change the oil, I know when to change the primary and secondary filters, I know when to overhaul the engine and clean out everywhere. It has been working perfectly since 1984.

So, for the 30 years that the tractor has been with you, the maintenance has been done by only you alone?

Of course.

How easy was it for you to choose agriculture in the midst of lawyers? Were there protests from your father and other family members?

Well, my father was a very liberal man but he didn’t believe I would do agriculture for a long time because in school, one of my greatest passions was the Literary and Debating Society. I was a star in that area and so everybody, including my father felt that I was going to do law. But I told him to interpret the laws of man while I interpret the laws of nature. He agreed, saying he wouldn’t force me to do what I didn’t really like.

My mother also encouraged me to go for what I truly liked. She had no biological daughters even though she brought up quite a number of them. So, because of my interest in farming, I became very close to her. Right from my youth, apart from looking after chickens and other animals in the house, she also taught me how to cook, bake and sew. Even till this day, part of what my mother taught me is what led to me and my wife opening a restaurant here in Lagos. It is next door to the Lagos Lawn Tennis Club. I have three other brothers who are lawyers. They have taken after our father’s profession while I took after my mother’s. Two of my children are lawyers as well.

In those days when a lot of parents wanted their children to become doctors, engineers and the rest, when you ventured into agriculture full time, apart from your family, what was the reaction of people around you?

When I got back to Nigeria from abroad where I was studying, I was employed by Oke-Afa Farms of late Chief Ashamu. Even he called me one day and said I resembled my father so well and it just would have been a fantastic transition if I had studied law. He said, ‘While you are very useful to me here, I want you to reconsider your stand and go back and read law.’ But I told him I was quite happy interpreting the laws of nature.

On several occasions, when I tell people that I am a farmer, they say no, it’s not possible. I say okay, let me put it in a better way, I am an educated farmer. It took a lot of efforts for people to come to terms with the fact that I could leave a well established path and venture into a completely different field where I had no helper or assistance.

But I was not the only one who had this problem. My cousin who was five years my senior in our profession, Mr. Kunle Adetokunbo-Ademola, son of the first Chief Justice of Nigeria, also rebelled like myself and studied agriculture in Denmark and also specialised in animal husbandry. So, we naturally became close because of our profession.

It had not been easy because in my own days, it was not possible to get money from the Agricultural Credit Bank. Most unfortunately, tribalism was very strong at the time. I also do consultancy work and you could imagine that the people I consulted for who came from a certain part of the country got their loans while all sorts of objections were raised on mine. Eventually I realised it was not going to be easy to get the loan, so I forgot about it and started the very hard way.

My father bought me land, I cleared it and with the little that I was able to gather together, I started farming at Ojota. Later again I got into serious trouble at Ojota. You see in Nigeria when you are the son of a big man, you suffer a lot. My father took Lagos State government to court over the issue of educational facilities and institutions. Lateef Jakande’s government wanted to close down all the Catholic schools and my father went to court, won the case and as a result of that, I was victimised. My land was compulsorily acquired without any concrete reason. So, I had to leave Ojota.

So, there was no compensation from the government?

There was nothing. Once somebody victimises you in government, it becomes institutionalised and even when friendlier governments come in, they continue that way. That has been a very tragic and traumatic experience for me. So, my father bought me another land at Iju and I continued with what I could muster. I was able to establish a piggery and poultry. I also grew a lot of corn. Right now I grow a lot of ugu, I am veering into snail farming too.

Between the time you got into farming and today, what do you think has changed over the years in the industry?

Very little has changed over the years. Some people got into agriculture because they could not get admitted into other disciplines in the higher institutions and so settled for agric while some got into it because they genuinely loved it.

A lot of banks prefer to pay the penalty for not lending money to farmers than actually lending to them. I still think that the economic salvation of Nigeria lies in agriculture. The oil may finish, there could be political upheaval which would make it difficult to mine the oil. But we have other resources that can give us three times the revenue we are getting from oil.

The Federal Government needs to create a ministry of agricultural education and make it compulsory in schools and also facilitate the establishment of vocational training schools in the geo-political zones of the country. It is one thing to give somebody money for farming and it is another thing for the person to know what exactly to do with it. A lot is taught in the textbooks but the practical thing is a different ball game entirely. So, we need to put these things in place to help the agricultural sector.

Would you attribute your success in farming to the personality of your father?

My success first of all is attributed to God. With Him, all things are possible. My father’s name often times has militated against me. In those days when I told people that I was broke, they just looked at me and said that’s not possible. I am somebody who has always been his own man. I have managed to hold up my head high and take care of my responsibilities. Of course on a number of occasions, my father helped out like buying land for me, I have had to work truly hard to get to where I am today. The training I had in Holland has been a blessing so far. I am very proud of it.

What was childhood like for you?

I had a tremendous childhood, a very happy one. My father would take us to church most Sundays but majority of the time, we didn’t always have him around because of the nature of his job.

I remember there was a quarrel between Chief Adelabu, the strong man of Ibadan politics at the time, and Obafemi Awolowo. Adelabu said that Awolowo had built primary schools for his free education scheme and that none of his children and that of his ministers were attending those schools. That was a big challenge to Awolowo who went ahead to order all his children and that of the ministers to enrol in those schools. My father was a minister under Awolowo and I am glad I went to such a school. When you were about getting to school, you had to remove your sandals and put them in your bag lest you were branded a rich kid and be mocked by the other children. That was a very memorable part of my childhood.

As a child, where were those places that you looked forward to visiting?

The Zoological garden at the University of Ibadan was a very interesting place to see but sadly now, it is in a shambles. We also enjoyed visiting bookshops, Kingsway stores and the rest. My grandmother would buy money pots made from clay and so from January when people gave us money, we put it in there and by December, we broke it, counted the money and bought fireworks with it. It was more fun than what you have these days.

I also remember that during holidays, my elder brother and I always enjoyed going to my grandmother’s house where our cousins and other relatives of our age also came around. In the morning, we were served breakfast, we got lunch in the afternoon but in the evening she would give us money to go out and buy dundun, akara and so many different things. The entire children would buy different things, came home, put everything together and have a feast. Every night we did that and it was fun. To cap it all, my grandmother would tell us interesting stories. One by one, we would fall asleep.

Being a good-looking man, what was it like with the ladies?

I went to Government College Ibadan and I used to be a member of our musical band in school as the bass guitarist. There were girls who openly came to ask me to be their boyfriend as a result. But in those days, we didn’t do the things that boys of this age do. All what we wanted to do was that if you were a dancer, you wanted to show off your dancing skills and if you played music, you were not playing for the money but to impress people, especially the girls.

I remember that in those days, we would go to one of the girls’ schools and we would be asked to remove one leg of our sandals and put it in front and the girl or girls who wanted to dance with you would go and pick it. So, those of us who played music and who were the happening guys, the girls used to rush our sandals. It was fun.

At what point did you meet your wife and how did it happen?

I first met her at my cousin’s wedding in November 1966 and I went abroad the following year. When I came back, I started looking for her because she is an extremely beautiful woman and a very pleasant person to be around. She had this stubbornness which I liked. Anybody who is stubborn can build a dream. I prefer somebody who is stubborn because if you get such people to believe in a dream that you have, they would hold on to it irrespective of what happens.

My wife is also very good at handling money. Since we have been together, I have never kept any money away from her; in fact she signs all my accounts. Mind you it is a very risky thing to do if you had a bad woman as a wife because she could clean you out. But she has been a restraining factor on me and ensures that I spend prudently.

So, we met again in 1972 but it wasn’t easy to persuade her to marry me. I am somebody who doesn’t give up easily too and so eventually we got married. Last Sunday was our 40th marriage anniversary.

And in those 40 years, how has the journey been like?

We have had our difficulties like everybody else but let me say that God gave me my wife. We have four lovely children, all are graduates. We have six grandchildren and it’s a happy home.

How do you find the time to relax?

My own form of relaxation in the early days was that I used to go to the movies a lot but now, you have movies at home. I watch television a lot, do a lot of reading. Sometimes when I am free, I do things which most Nigerian men wouldn’t do. I make breakfast for my wife, take it to her in bed, wait for her to finish before clearing the place.

Even till this day?

Yes, when I have the time. Even at 64, my wife is still looking very beautiful like she was in her early 30s. I take very good care of my wife. If you don’t take care of your wife, she will age prematurely and then you start going outside. She is a big part of my life and success, so I don’t joke with her.

Looking back, if you have a chance, are there specific things you would love to change about your life’s journey?

If I had the knowledge I have today some 30 years ago, I would have been a billionaire today. Most of the Opebi area, my father did the case for the Egba refugees and they wanted to give him some plots of land but I wasn’t interested. I said I wasn’t going to do farming on a few plots of land and that I needed a big land. If I had accepted, the value of a plot of land there is far bigger than several hectares in rural areas.

Generally, looking back I don’t regret my life but I would say on the economic side, one could have made more had one been a bit more informed.

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Evangelist Bola Odeleke in this interview with GBENRO ADEOYE, speaks on her life as a preacher, her late husband and the mistakes she made after his death

You recently celebrated your 40th anniversary in the ministry, how has the experience been?

Forty years of my ministry have been wonderful and glorious and that is why it was themed ‘Grace made me.’ When I looked at the whole thing, if not for God, where would I be? It is not an easy task for a woman to be in ministry in Africa but God has been helping me since I started in November 1974. God is helping me and the gift of God in me is making way for me.

You’re 64 years old now, so you must have started at a young age.

Yes, I was very young.

Did you think that you would become a preacher as a young girl?

No way. I never thought that I could be a preacher though I was from a Christian home, the Aboderin family. My father who was the first child of the Aboderins was an organist emeritus at the Anglican Church in the old Western Region for 50 years. So everybody in my house could sing. During early morning devotion at 5am, we would sing and as we grew up, we would join the choir at age nine. So I’ve been singing since I was nine years old. All these things are part of us. I grew up with all of that but I never knew it would lead me to becoming a pastor. No, not at all. There was no pastor in the family, though I heard about a woman called Iya Adura, she even died before I was born. So there was no reference point for me even in the family. My father who was an organist was not being paid for it because he was an accountant and he had his job. He was a rich man, one of the first five people to buy a car in Ibadan in those days. His mother was Yejide of the famous Yejide Grammar School, Ibadan. So I come from a rich home and everybody was doing their business. My late husband and I received Christ in 1970; he was a lieutenant at the time. I remember that the prophet that came said ‘madam, you will do the same work I have come to do here.’ I laughed. Immediately he left, I said I didn’t believe him and that he was not a true prophet. Why would he say I would become a prophet. For what? I had two boutiques. I was working at the National Bank then. As I finished secondary school, there was job waiting for me. Then I got married to a military officer and I was okay. So why would I think of becoming a pastor? So we just laughed it off.

How was growing up for you?

I grew up in Ibadan and Ilesha (Osun State). My mother was from Ilesha and my father was from Ibadan. But it was my grandmother, Mama Ilesha, who trained me. That’s why I can speak Ijesha better than Ibadan dialect. I had my primary and secondary school education at Ilesha. I went to Atakumosa High School, Osu (Osun State). I moved to Ibadan when I was about 10 years old. Then, when the first child of the family got married, she would have to go with a little sister called ‘omo eyin iyawo’. So I had to go with my elder sister because she married an Ibadan man. Then another sibling got married and since I was the last child, I was doing ‘omo eyin iyawo’ up and down, so that was how I ended up in Ibadan. Even when I was little, we had to be in my father’s house every Christmas because at St. David’s Church, Kudeti, Ibadan, apart from my father being an organist, there was also a pew for the Aboderin family because my grandfather built the church. But from age 10, my coming to Ibadan became regular till I married an Ibadan man. That was how I ended the Ilesha chapter.

How did your relatives and husband take your decision to become an evangelist?

I was married before I started the ministry, so my family had no say in it. It was my husband that had a say but he didn’t take kindly to it because our marriage was just about five years old. We were at the Christ Apostolic Church at the time and the pastors and the evangelists advised him not to allow his wife to go into it so that people would not take his wife away from him. Therefore, he too had that in his head that he would lose his wife and he didn’t want a divorce because he loved his wife. We grew up together; we were from the same area, the same road. Our houses faced each other at Isale-Ibode, Ibadan so I knew him when I was six and he was eight. We were friends. We had a tap in our compound and they didn’t have in theirs so he would come and get water from my compound. That was how we met. We played with sand together when we were little. We grew up first as friends before we got married. So it was like his friend would be taken away from him. The pastors kicked against it and he too bought the vision of ‘my wife will not do it.’ So he said, ‘well, you said God told you, I believe you. Go and preach once, then after that, you won’t do it again.’ We agreed and I went to preach at Owo (Ondo State) and by the time I returned home, news had reached him of the lame that walked, the blind that saw, the deaf that heard. When I returned home, he said he had heard the story. I showed him some pictures. He said, ‘so you are going to be like Prophets Obadare and Durojaiye.’ I said I didn’t know. So he became interested and suggested that we should pray that God should use somebody else. Both of us agreed not to go into it. So we would kneel down in the morning and pray ‘God, use somebody else.’ He was teaching at the Nigeria Defence Academy at the time. One day as he was resting and taking a nap, he dreamt off. He heard a radio broadcast about a revival at Efon Alaye (Ondo State). It announced the revivalist as Lady Evangelist Bola Odeleke; announcer as Lieutenant Lasun Odeleke. He woke up and found out that he was still in the teachers’ room. So he came home and told me what he heard. He said he even heard a name- Lady evangelist. So that was how I became Lady Evangelist Bola Odeleke. So that settled it for everybody. He realised that his work was to announce his wife and till he died, he occupied that position. He never struggled with me over anything. Even when we started the ministry, Christ Message Ministry, I made him its President and I was Vice President. Anytime we were holding a meeting, he would say ‘don’t mind her, I’m just the president by mouth, she is the main person. What did God say we should do mama?’ He was the perfect husband of a lady minister. He acted that part very well. He helped me with the administration of the ministry and so many things and allowed me to go anywhere that I wanted to go. Even when we were having children, he would take the children from me till I returned and he would be fasting and praying for me.

It appears you were the first popular lady evangelist in the country, how were you received by the public who must have been used to seeing only male evangelists?

There were a lot of discriminations. In fact, some people would ask me; show us a woman that has done this before. So where are you coming from?’ And truly, what God was asking me to do, no woman was doing anything like that. Then the Holy Spirit would jump on them and they would say ‘anyway, we will let you speak for 10 minutes’. They would then give me the microphone. And at that time, I was very tiny. I was just 24 years old. So they would say ‘a little girl came and said God said this and that. I don’t know where she saw God, but she said she saw God. Let’s hear her.’ And as I held the microphone, God would start from the man that wanted to humiliate me and miracle would happen. So it was the gift really that shut the mouths of the people that could have stopped me. And I also heard stories about how a lot of women would have risen in evangelism even before I started, but people stopped them. So that is why I said Grace made me. God allowed me. In spite of all the criticisms, miracles shut their mouths because only fools deny proofs.

How did you become a female bishop with all the discriminations you faced?

I’m the first female bishop in Africa, since May 28, 1995. That again was from the Lord. I had a church in England, so I went there to oversee the church and take some rest. Then my pastor there told me about a group called International Ministerial Council of Great Britain. They were having a convention. It’s a council for all Pentecostal churches in England and Europe and my church was part of it. So he asked me to also attend so I went with them. We were over 2000 pastors in the place and the Head, Archbishop Douglas’ eyes caught me. If I moved this way or that way, he would follow me with his eyes. So I changed my seat. I was wondering if it was because we had arrived late for the event. It was his custom to be at the gate and shake hands with everybody and when it was my turn after the event, he held on to my hand. This is a man that was over 70 years at that time. So he held on to my hand and said, ‘can I know you? I introduced myself as Pastor Bola Odeleke (at the time, I had been ordained pastor). He asked where I came from and I said Nigeria, Africa. He asked if he could have a date with me, that he wanted to see me again. I said ‘it’s okay, sir.’ So he called his secretary to give me his number and the place to meet him. So I asked my pastor what it was about and he said maybe he just wanted to meet me. We then went to Watford. When we got there, we met other bishops waiting for us in his office. I didn’t know it was an interview. So we started talking over tea and biscuits. They were asking me about my ministry, which was about 25 years at the time. I told them what the Lord was doing in Nigeria, the crusades, the miracles, and so on. My mouth was just running and you know I enjoy talking, so I was just talking. So at a time, they looked at one another and said, ‘Praise the Lord, we have found our first female bishop.’ So I started looking around for their female bishop and wondering if anyone came in. But I was the only woman there. Then they said, ‘you are the first female bishop.’ I started laughing. I said I was from Africa where some people were not comfortable with me being a pastor, let alone a bishop. They said they would gazette it in the UK and the entire world would know about it. I said ‘excuse me, if it’s going to happen, you will come to Nigeria because I don’t want any problem. Come to my country and let people see you that you are the ones that chose me.’ They said yes, they would follow me. So that was how they gazetted it and I didn’t pay a dime. They gazetted it in the UK for 90 days and pasted it in all the mainstream churches, Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, The Apostolic, etc. that people should come forward if anyone had anything against it and when nobody was against it for 90 days, they came here. We have a copy of the gazette. The leader of the Methodist Church with the Archbishop came here. Three of them came- an archbishop and two bishops. They came to consecrate me here and I invited a lot of bishops here to witness it. They trained me for three months and I had to attend classes twice a week for three months. Then at least, five churches apart from my own church must write a testimony about me, and I must have at least 15 pastors that submitted to me and must have been in the ministry for at least 15 years. Those were the conditions I had to satisfy before the council could consecrate me. I even surpassed the conditions. They were looking for 15 years in the ministry, mine was more than 20 years old. When the letters recommending me came, they were more than five.

What would you describe as your happiest moment?

My happiest moments come during crusades; that’s my gift. I’m happy when we have crusades. I’m happy seeing crowd, preaching to them and seeing miracles happen. Do you know that the first time a lame boy rose and walked during a crusade, I ran. I dropped the microphone and ran. You know, I thought there was nothing like that. I thought the ones I had seen were stage-managed. I never knew it could be real. So when that boy stood up, I dropped the microphone and ran to the senior pastor and told him that I did not know the boy. I did not arrange it, I kept shouting. And the man was saying this could not have been arranged, we can see it. The boy staggered towards me and said he had never walked in his life. That was how it all started. I remember very well, it happened at Owo in December 1974. I was very immature because I had never seen anything like that.

Looking back again, what has been your saddest moment?

My husband’s death was sad for me, even till now. Although when I talk about it now, I don’t cry again. It’s been 24 years now. A great helper left me. He was the one handling the administration and teaching me things. I had only secondary school certificate, so I had no experience, nothing. But at NDA, he had gone through courses and so was enlightened. He was a commanding officer, he was a brigade commander. He planned the organisation of the ministry very well. Even till now, we are still following the plan he left here. So when he suddenly died, it was my saddest moment. But people didn’t know because I put up a bold face and I took it with faith. So, people didn’t know that something was wrong with me. It’s my saddest moment in life. God has removed that because my children are grown up now. They are working and everybody is okay. Our first child was just 18 years old when my husband died, now she’s 42 years old.

People say his death really affected you to the point where your ministry suffered.

Oh yes, it suffered. It suffered for it. He was my friend, my father and husband.

Could it be that you trusted other men like you trusted your late husband since your subsequent marriages weren’t as pleasant as your first?

That’s exactly what happened. I don’t like talking about it again because it’s in the past. And past is gone. I learnt my lessons and I’m okay now and the Lord is taking care of me. I have a joyous future ahead of me.

We learnt that some people, including some members of your congregation, disapproved of it when you wanted to remarry three years after your husband’s death. Why were people against you remarrying?

Even if it is second year, I don’t understand because a widow has the right to remarry and I was just 40 years old. I look at it as Satan trying to get back at me. This is because when my husband died, my guard was let down a little. When you lose somebody you love, it’s like your head is cut off and you can’t hear or see. You don’t understand anything. And then, there will be so many mistakes. So that was what happened to me. My head was cut off. My husband was my head. Yes, I made some mistakes. I made mistakes at that time and people didn’t understand and everybody was talking and God told me not to talk. So I couldn’t defend myself. There were a lot of lies. I would read newspaper and say ‘Ehn! Ehn! When did I do this one?’ I only prayed that God should defend me and he did. Some people would go through what I went through and you will never hear their names again. So I give God praises. God vindicated me and let people know I didn’t offend him and if I didn’t offend God, who else is there?

Widowers are usually allowed to remarry whenever they want to. Do you think that the society is unfair to widows than widowers?

Nigerians are chauvinists. It’s in our culture that men can do anything they want but women cannot do that. So when a woman wants to do something, they will say women don’t do that. If someone’s wife died, in a few days, they will say if he doesn’t remarry, the dead will be troubling him. But if it’s a woman who lost her husband, they will tell her to wait, that her husband will take care of her from the dead. That is why I forgave everybody for whatever they said, including the press. They didn’t understand. That’s exactly what happened. Some people left the church because of what the press wrote. Journalists did not handle it well. And they didn’t even bother to do any investigation. All the papers that wrote about me at that time, we are all friends now. They have seen the truth.

How has your experience influenced the advice you give to widows?

I advise widows to mourn their husbands very well. Mourn him out of your heart. Mourn him out of your system, out of your life and then you will be able to see who to marry again. If the mourning is not over, you are blind. When they are telling you not to do it, you won’t listen to anybody. You are not hearing. So mourn that person out of your system, especially if you were in love before your spouse died. It applies to a man too. I tell widows that when you have mourned that man enough and you feel you need a companion, go for it. You have the right to do so. If men can remarry, women can do it. Nowadays, it doesn’t take one year for widowers to remarry and nothing is happening. So I tell the woman that because you are a woman and soft, mourn the man out of your system and then go ahead and do what the Lord has asked you to do. If the Lord says you should remain a widow for life, then remain a widow. If he says he will give you another head, why not? So that’s what I teach them. The mourning period will depend on each person. If you can mourn him out in a few days, it’s all right and if it takes another woman 10 years, fine.

So how has it been staying alone since your last marriage?

I’m not alone, alone ke? You can see many people around.

Okay, what about having a companion?

I have a lot of companions. I have seven children and 11 grandchildren now. I have a lot of friends. I have a lot of children in this world so I’m not alone. I have companions. But if God wants me to marry, for all of you to know, it can happen. That is left to him. I’m in God’s hand.

You talk about your husband passionately yet people say military officers are tough. What was it like married to a military officer?

I was married to a child of God. We received Christ at the same time in 1970 when he was commanding officer of a battalion. It was on the same day. I married my best friend plus he was a child of God. He was kind-hearted. He rose to the position of Brigadier-General and they gave him posthumous decoration. His promotion was supposed to come the month he died and they still gave him the rank. I married a complete gentleman.

People used to describe you as fashionable during your programme Agbara kibati on TV. What inspired your dress sense?

Remember that I was into fashion before God called me. I ran two boutiques; I designed clothes for my tailors to sew. So I could turn around any cloth and make it good.

Did any of your children take to evangelism also?

Yes, they are in the ministry doing one thing or the other. All of them are Christians doing one thing or another for the Lord. I have a son that is a full time pastor at one of our branches. I was carrying his pregnancy when God called me, so it’s understandable.

Do you have any regrets in life?

No regrets. I don’t know what work I can do that will make me this famous. I was hitting newspapers’ front pages for six months. Could selling clothes bring such fame? I am happy being a pastor. God answers my prayers and has been very good to me. It’s been 24 years since my husband died and He has single-handedly helped me to train my children. They are all graduates.

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Yeye Oge of Lagos, Chief Opral Benson, 79, tells ‘Nonye Ben-Nwankwo how she got married to the late Chief T.O.S. Benson and her life afterwards in Nigeria

Did you expect that you would be made the Honorary Liberian Consular General to Nigeria?

I didn’t expect it at all. I just felt that Liberia wanted to have someone in Lagos that could represent the country. Lagos, as you know, is the nerve centre of Nigeria. When all the embassies moved to Abuja, there was no representation for Liberia in Lagos. Some of the bigger countries established consulates and left them in Lagos. Some of the smaller countries couldn’t do that. But Liberia wanted to have somebody on the ground in case there were Nigerians who would want to interact or have something to do in Liberia and wouldn’t need to go to Abuja because of the distance. I have been in Lagos for so many years and because I was born in Liberia and have all the connections, they thought I would be the type of person the country would need to be able to represent it. It is not what you would call a high flying job. My responsibility is to help Liberia as an honorary consular.

So you are not paid?

No. Honorary means you are not a paid staff of the government but you do what you can to help the government. Our responsibility is to look at the commercial side; particularly, to find out if there are persons who want to do business in Liberia and the other way round. We check if there are Liberians who want to come here for business and we advise them on how to do it. They feel that with my experience on the ground, I could be of help. That was why the President of Liberia spoke to me, I know her quite well, and she said they had decided I should do this and I accepted.

Did you know the Liberian president when you were growing up?

Of course I knew her. We went to the same high school. I know her whole family. Liberia is a small place, so we know one another.

The war destabilised the country but is it not high time the country improved economically?

I think the country has been improving economically. It has been doing quite well. The recent outbreak of Ebola has caused a bit of a setback but before then, I think the country had improved economically. After Ebola is over (and I hope it would be soon), the country would keep improving. We hope the scourge would go away soon as it has done in other countries.

But you are not so young again; didn’t you consider your age before accepting the position?

Actually, I was working despite my age even before the appointment and it didn’t make any difference. It doesn’t mean that because the appointment came, my age should change. If I had retired and resigned and was sitting in my house, that would have been a different thing. But I had been going to my office everyday and I am still doing that. I still have my beauty school. We are 30 years this year. I still have my Chic Afrique and we still do some stuff in the beauty industry and interact with people. I don’t think my age is a problem and I know a lot of people who are my age and are still working. I feel strong enough. I will not say I will not do this because of my age, no.

What gives you the strength, you still look very strong?

I think you have to ask God that question. God has helped me and He has been good to me. I cannot really say what gives me the strength because some people who are less than my age cannot move around. It may also be as a result of how one has carried herself in life. It might also be luck. There are things that may just occur and you wouldn’t know where they are coming from and they would sort of pull you down. So far, I have been lucky and that is why I say God has blessed me.

Over the years, you have been known as a very fashionable woman, is it that you do it effortlessly or you just take your time and go the extra mile to look good?

What is the extra mile?

Maybe looking at yourself in the mirror for hours and making sure everything is in place before you step out…

Why would I do that? The mirror is not my best friend. I have been doing what I am doing for a long time and by the way, I don’t really do much.

You arrived Nigeria and some years later, you were crowned the Iya Oge of Lagos, don’t you think some Nigerian ladies at that time could have been envious of you and wonder why a ‘foreigner’ should be given that title?

I was given the title 11 years after I came, so I wouldn’t say it was an immediate thing. Naturally, some ladies would have been jealous but, majority of people had appreciated what I had tried to do in the beauty industry when I came and they eventually came to accept me with the title the Oba bestowed on me. I was a member of staff of the University of Lagos when I was given that title. I used to go to the Oba’s palace then. I would accompany my husband and I used to do various things in the beauty industry. Even before I left the university, my mind was on setting up a beauty industry and doing something for myself. When the Oba saw my appearance all the time and things I had done by way of contribution, he (Oba) thought I should get that title. In any case, in those days, people were not giving beauty the type of attention that it is getting today. Those who were in the beauty industry were just wasting their time. People would rather their wards went into other professions they deemed ‘noble’ than allowed them to be in our industry. But it has changed. A whole lot of people have gone into the beauty industry. The hair business has escalated to a point that you cannot describe it now. It was a good thing that I went into it at that time. However, many people thought that the title was a well selected title and it was good the Oba gave it to me. After I was given the title, I had to improve on the beauty industry by establishing a beauty school.

Going down memory lane, you schooled in the US, why did you come back home thereafter?

I am an African woman. I never had any intention of staying back in the US. I really wanted to be home. I had my family and friends at home. In those days, many Liberians were travelling abroad to study and come back to help and develop the country. You just don’t travel abroad and stay back because you are just thinking of yourself. Coming back home was something I had looked forward to. I had never had any intention of staying back in the US. I didn’t feel that because I was educated, I would stay back in America. I felt there was a role for me to play in Liberia and that was why I came back home. If I hadn’t come back, I may not have been in Nigeria today, who knows.

But you didn’t stay long in Liberia when you came back because you got married and moved down to Nigeria…

But it is still the same Africa. I could and I am making contributions from here. It is still better than staying in America.

Didn’t you have any form of reservation when you were coming to Nigeria?

I wouldn’t call it ‘reservation’ but I would call it ‘curiosity.’ I was curious about what Nigeria was all about. I had read some things about the country but I didn’t know enough and I thought I would come and see what it was all about.

Was the time you got married the first time you came to Nigeria?

No. Before I got married to a Nigerian, I was invited on a visit and was taken around to see Lagos. I saw it and I felt this is an African country that is bigger than Liberia. One little person like me would not make a difference in respect of whether the country is good or bad. But I said I would contribute whatever I could to move the country forward. My curiosity was settled immediately I got here because I got well accepted and appreciated by Nigerians. They became my friends and I got along quite well. There was no need to have any form of regret.

So you didn’t think twice when your husband proposed to you?

I thought about it. That was actually why he invited me to come and see Nigeria. I came visited and made many friends and met the then president, Dr. (Nnamdi) Azikiwe who was also my husband’s good friend because they were in politics together. I thought it was a good thing and it would be a good experience for me.

But did your family think the same way?

Of course, my family left me to decide how I wanted to live my life. They didn’t need to decide for me. After all, at that time, I was a grown up person. If I said I wanted to go to Nigeria, all they would need to tell me was to be careful. The then president of Liberia invited me, he advised me and told me to pay attention to whatever I was doing and try to make Liberia proud. So, marrying a Nigerian wasn’t a problem for me and the members of my family. It was a challenge in terms of what you could do and that is why I stuck with it and did all I could do to move the country forward. It wasn’t as if I was afraid or anything before I came.

Didn’t you have Liberian suitors?

I didn’t have any suitor as of the time I met my husband. I hadn’t been back from the US that long before I met him. I was busy with my work. I had a lot of friends but there was no suitor as of that time. I wasn’t even looking for a suitor. My husband came sort of unexpectedly. I hadn’t got to that point of thinking of settling down. I wanted to make an impact first on the job I was doing.

Did you make the impact?

I did. I worked with the Monrovia Conference and thought that was a good place to be. I got to meet different people from different parts of Africa. As a matter of fact, it was requested that I should come and work in that department. Before then, I was working in the Ministry of Agriculture and Labour and my boss was very impressed with how I was working and it was through my work that I was recommended to go to the foreign ministry to work with that conference. Maybe it was just God that did it because it was at the conference that I met my husband. It was the conference that laid the foundation for the Organisation of African Unity now African Union.

So in all the 46 years you were married, there was no regret at all?

No. There was no regret at all. You would have your good days and your bad days and there would be issues which you would discuss. But to say regret, no. I never regretted marrying my late husband. You cannot marry somebody and stay with him for that long and regret it. If you regret, you pack and go and since I didn’t go, that means I didn’t regret it.

You have mingled with the high and mighty even when you were in Liberia and now in Nigeria and you are known to be very humble, why?

I don’t think you should put yourself in a special category because you know people. If you are humble, you should remain that way. I just see people as people. I have never had an impression about myself that I should carry on airs because I am influential. Oh yes, people tell me that I am humble but I ask them what ‘humble’ means. You do what you are set out to do. You have respect for yourself, so you should have respect for others. You don’t have to put on a show. I don’t believe in such, I am just another human being created by God.

What was your dream when you were young?

I didn’t have a dream then. All I wanted to do was to pass my studies and I decided that when I got to a certain point, I would know what I would want to be. Before you know what you want to be, you must know what it entails. What does a doctor do? What does a lawyer do? What is it out there that I think I can do? So when I was young, I wasn’t planning I was going to be this or that. I was just going forward and taking life as I found it and being a young girl and interacting with my associates.

Why did you decide to study Education?

I chose it at the point I was going to the US. I knew the education system in Liberia needed to have some uplift and I had met a few people in that department and I could see there were vacancies and opportunities to help people and spread it towards the rural areas near Monrovia. I thought I could be of some assistance and help. I felt education was the way forward and I wanted to be in education.

Since you are in education, you must feel saddened by the incessant strikes we experience in schools in Nigeria…

I think strike is not the best way forward in any organisation. I think it is a two-sided activity. Those who go on strike have their grievances and those who allow them to go on strike have their reasons. Maybe it is something they can or cannot help. But I think there should be an open door discussion between the two groups to know the way forward.

Do you still remember your growing up days?

It was fine. We grew up together as good family. I love my family. In those days, you didn’t have some problems as some people are experiencing now. I was the sixth of seven children. You respected your elders and your parents. You did the things you were asked to do. We were just one happy family.

Were you pampered?

I wasn’t pampered at all. I did the work I was asked to do and I even did it on time. If I didn’t do it well, I would be called back and made to do it all over again. Because I wasn’t pampered, that has been part of my success today. I was able to stand on my feet.

Have you always wanted to be independent?

Yes. I have never wanted to lean on anybody; I have always wanted to do my own thing. Independence is something I have always treasured.

How did you feel when your husband died?

How does anybody feel when she loses a husband? I was sad. I felt as though my prop had fallen and I now stand on my own. But I also felt he had lived a good life and he had put me firmly on my feet. He was a pillar to his family. He had no regrets because before he died, he kept saying he had done his bit. He was 90. He felt he had done all that he could. I felt he had done what he could do for his family and we were appreciative of his life. If you have that kind of feeling, you would also feel that God has not been unfair to you.

What do you hope to achieve in the nearest future?

I don’t really have anything set aside and say I am going to achieve it. I just hope to continue doing what I am doing and continue to be of assistance in whatever assignment I am given. I want to say that during my stay at this consulate or at my school, I made contributions and I don’t have any regrets in my mind.

When you look at the laurels and awards you have received, how do you feel?

I feel accomplished. I feel I have done the best I could and that people have appreciated me and God has been good to me. One way people show appreciation is to give you an award and call you to speak with them. I have been recognised for the bit I have done.

Would you remember how you felt when you were given a national honour?

Oh! I felt God has been good to me. So many people want national award and they are yet to be given and I have two. I am just happy about it.

Your husband was a politician, why didn’t you join him?

No. I never thought of getting into politics. I was helping him as we went along during campaigns and I would be saying, ‘vote for Benson’, with the microphone. But no, I wasn’t ready to get into politics other than that. I felt one person in politics was enough. I encouraged him all the way. It was what he wanted to do and we worked with him but I wasn’t going to going into it, no.

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Veteran Nollywood actor, Victor Olaotan, shares some of his life experiences with Ademola Olonilua

Why did you choose to become an actor?

I would rather say that the acting profession chose me. When I was in school, I was involved in a lot of activities. I was the leader of the Scripture Union so I could have become a pastor but there was a teacher in my school, Mr. Adegoke, who was also an actor at the time. He was with the best professional group at that time which was the Ori Olokun Theatre of the University of Ife (now Obafemi Awolowo University). Professor Ola Rotimi featured him in virtually all his plays. He encouraged me to become an actor because I used to represent Ife/Ijesha division in poems and performing acts. One day he came to school after I had demonstrated my skills as an actor and he chose me to be one of the people who would audition as member of the crowd in a play by Ola Rotimi tittled ‘the gods are not to blame.’ During the play, there was a line one of us was meant to say and I was chosen for the role because I was known to have a very good diction and I said it very well. That was how I became one of the very few young men who cut their teeth in the profession then. When I saw the level of professionalism and perfection that was put into the stage plays, I told myself I had to become an actor. Although I was a science student in school and my father used to call me the professor; I thought I was going to become a professor. I could have also become a professor in theatre arts because I did some courses in the field when I was in America. I had it in mind that I wanted to become an actor but it was not my primary focus because I was a sports man too. I was sprinting for my school and very good on the on the track and field. I played football for the Western State Academicals two years in a row.

Do you think if you had pursued a career in football you would have become an icon?

I probably would have become an icon but at the time there were problems in the team that I was playing for. There were some senior teammates that were not happy that I was put in the first team shortly after I joined. From what I heard many years later, they took my name to various herbalist shrines and told them to make me confused anytime I was playing. I heard this almost 20 years after I left. It is not their charms that worked; it is destiny that made me quit football for acting. But if I were not an actor I am very sure I would have become a legendary footballer.

How did you become the president of the Scripture Union being someone with a background in the Catholic faith?

I attended a Catholic primary school, then I went ahead to attend SS Peter & Paul which was its secondary school but my mother withdrew me from the school to St. Gregory’s College. When my father died, I was transferred to Ilesha, Osun State. My stint with the Catholic faith was when I was much younger.

We also learnt that you became a Muslim for a while. What influenced the change of religion?

I became a Muslim when I was in America. My grandparents were Muslims and I wanted to find out what Islam was all about. I took the shahada and I practised it devoutly for 10 years.

Why did you switch back to Christianity?

When I got back to Nigeria, I found out that I could not be a Muslim in this land because the way they practised it was different from what I learnt. The Islam in Nigeria is not for me.

We learnt that your father had three wives and about 20 children. What was it like growing up in such an environment?

It was very communal. It never mattered who your mother was because we all played, ate, and even fought together. We did everything together until we became grown up. It was after my father died that we knew that we did not all have the same mother.

What was it like being the son of a police officer?

He was a senior officer, so we never lived in the barracks. My father was taller than all of us and we all respected him. My mother also worked briefly as a nurse in the police force before she went back to the general hospital. There was no special feeling being a policeman’s son only that whenever there was a little problem, my father would bring out his revolver.

We learnt you were one of the favourite children in the house. Were you shown preferential treatment?

It was my mother that made me the favourite. Then my father loved me because I was very brilliant in school. I did not feel anything special. It was when I became old that I realised that there was something special about it.

What led to your father’s death?

My father was old and he died at the age of 75. He had a little malaria, they took him to the hospital and he died.

Do you think your father’s dream for you becoming a medical doctor would have been achieved if he were alive?

If my father were alive, I would have gone to medical school and still become an actor. Even if I trained as a doctor, I still would have acted.

How was it growing up as a child?

I was not a quiet child. I have an unassuming nature but I was rascally. I went out to watch films a lot and would come back in the midnight. By then, my parents would be on the edge. Sometimes my mother would have to pick me at a cinema in the middle of the night. I gave my mother a lot of headaches and because of that, I had to be sent to school in the village. When they sent me to school in the village, I was very angry. My parents thought I probably might turn out to become an area boy if they left me in Lagos. I thank God that they kept a close eye on me.

As a Lagos boy, how did you cope when you were sent to the village?

It was not really a village but a town, I was sent to Ilesha and I stayed with my uncle who worked for the local government. I cried for a year because as a Lagos boy, I used to go swimming at King George V Park. I played football in Race Course (now TBS); I used to do so many things. I felt terrible when I found myself in the village all of a sudden and the only companion I had were the chirping birds on the trees and the big forest. When my mother came to visit me, I ran away from her and told her never to talk me again in her life. My mother started crying and eventually when we reconciled, she said it was for my good. She said I was becoming too problematic in Lagos. But I later felt at home when I realised that most of my classmates in Ilesa were from Lagos.

You started acting at age 15. Were you not exposed to various vices like smoking and drinking alcohol as a teenager?

At that time, there was dignity in the business and people did not venture into it to make money. Most people that were performers in those days believed in the business. They also liked the glamour and fame that it brought their way but there was no money. Of course, there were people that smoked Indian hemp then, they would not even let you join them. Instead, they would tell you to go and face your studies. There was guidance during that time and as a young man, they would direct you and tell you the truth about life unlike now where everybody is hustling to feed themselves and don’t care about the youths.

Back then, weren’t you ashamed to be an actor?

I have never been ashamed of being an actor because I was lucky to have learnt from the source. Then to be an actor, you had to be able to speak English fluently and eloquently unlike now when we have a lot of actors who cannot speak English very well. The most prominent theatre then was the Yoruba travelling theatres while the English-speaking theatre was exclusive to a few people. For you to be a part of the English theatre, it meant that you were very good in literature and English and you had a good diction. I did not feel ashamed; instead I felt proud to belong to that class.

All through your career which spans over three decades, was there a time you felt like quitting?

Yes. In 2002 when I came back to Nigeria, I saw a lot of my colleagues and they were not looking well because actors were not well paid. I did not want to go back to that kind of life, so my cousin and I started a computer training school. I believed that would be my career until some veteran actors came together during a festival and said they wanted to do a play. The play involved a lot of old-timers and I was contacted. It was written by Wale Ogunyemi, The Divorce, and I had always wanted to be a part of the play. In fact, any play that Jimi Solanke was a part of, I always wanted to be there because he is my idol. I was gunning for a particular lead role but I did not get it. Instead, I was given another one and I played the character, Godgift, who is a houseboy. I normally don’t play such roles but I did it very well and my colleagues commended me. They kept saying they did not know I still had it in me. That was my baptism back into the entertainment industry.

Why did you travel to America?

At that time, every young man’s dream was to go to America. Also, every book I read on theatre was about Hollywood, so I felt that if I wanted to get the best, I had to go to the source. Every entertainer’s dream was to visit America, even if it was out of the curiousity. I found my way to America by destiny because it was even the government that paid for my trip abroad. I was lucky to be one of eight artistes that were selected in Nigeria to support President Shehu Shagari who was having a meeting with Ronald Regan. I had a diplomatic visa as a representative of Nigeria and I had fun.

We learnt that Ronald Regan gave you a presidential medal. What was it for?

I don’t know where that medal is today but I felt very honoured to have had it. It is very significant because it can be compared to President Jonathan conferring someone with a national honour. It was given to us because we came with the president and we were representatives of the Nigerian government. We were actually superstars and we were signing autographs anywhere we performed. We performed on Broadway and there are not many actors in Nigeria today that can say they have performed on Broadway. I am lucky to be one Nigerian that has performed on Broadway and it was one of the highlights of my career. A lot of American actors have not performed on Broadway, so to make it that far is a big deal in America and I am happy that by representing the Nigerian government, I was able to achieve such feat at La MaMa Theatre.

How was the experience?

It was like a dream. When we first got into the US, we were looking around like people who were lost, we were looking like ‘bush people.’ Everything was magical and when we performed and the people rushed to meet us with pieces of paper, we did not know what they wanted. We just knew that they bombarded us and one of my senior colleagues, Tunji Oyelana, told me to sign on the paper. It was through him I knew that all they wanted was our autographs. They kept bringing the paper and I kept signing on them and that was my first experience as a star.

Why did you decide to further your studies when you were abroad?

After travelling with the president, I came back home because I was a producer at Nigerian Television Authority, Ibadan but I went back about nine months later to go to school. I had a friend then who was schooling at Rutgers University and when I read about the school, I realised it was a good school. It became my dream to also attend the school and I eventually did.

You got a job with a perfume company and subsequently you joined a car manufacturing company where you were earning as much as $120,000 per annum. How was life then?

Like Nigerians would say, I was a big boy. I had seven cars, three homes and I lived in a condominium. I bought the most expensive clothes and I had shoes that cost as much as a thousand dollars. I had expensive suits. I was living large; I had three BMW cars, Peugeot, among others. I was living very well and I went to concerts and operas. To go to opera would cost about $200 and at that time, an average weekly pay was $150. So, to go and watch opera meant that you belonged to the upper echelon of the society. I lived very well at the time.

We learnt that women flocked around you…

It is often said that what depicts success is when you are young, handsome and rich. A lot of women look for that. For security reasons, they want a man that can take care of them and it is always a plus if he is young. I was in that category and the ladies were always around me at that time. I had girlfriends; I dated white ladies and African Americans too. I eventually got married to an African American for about 17 years and we divorced in 1998. When I got home, I met my long time sweetheart whom I got married to and we are together till date.

We learnt that after living like a big man abroad, you came back to Nigeria with only $100 in your pocket. What happened?

It is a story I don’t like telling. I had issues with the Internal Revenue Service over my tax and I had to leave America in a hurry. Whatever I had then, I spent trying to defend myself and by the time I was coming home, I used all the money I had on me to bribe my way back to Nigeria. I had to travel with a certificate. It is a story I don’t like telling, I have told it enough.

Was that period a dark moment in your life?

It was one of the darkest moments of my life. Also coming home to find out that my mother was dead was one of the saddest moments in my life. She died some months before I came home.

What led to your divorce with your African American wife?

My uncle was very angry with me when I told him about the divorce. My wife did not have a child and I was a young man that wanted children. I waited for about 10 years only for us to discover that she had a problem because her father had done something to her. When she was younger, she got pregnant and he kicked her in the stomach and in the process, her womb got damaged. I could not continue to ‘waste’ my life. By the time we were divorced, I was in my forties and when I came back to Nigeria, I was fifty years old. So I got married to my current wife who was also of age. I met her when she was about 20 years old and by the time we got married, she was 35 years old. We have three children today.

Was she also single when you met her again?

Yes she was and I was surprised to find out that she was single. Shortly after my divorce, we began dating and I always told her that I was going to get married to her but she didn’t believe it. Unfortunately, we lost contact for about eight years. I believed she had moved on. When I came back home, one of her siblings saw me and told me that she was still single and living in the same apartment she used to back when we were together. So I went to pay her a surprise visit. When we began dating, she told me that since we separated, she had promised herself that she would never date anybody again except she was sure he was going to be her husband. She became a born again Christian and a celibate. She said that she did not care if she met her husband when she was 60 years old. We dated for about six months before we got married.

How were you able to rekindle the love when you got married?

If we had serious issues when we separated, getting back together might have been difficult for us but we were in love when I lost her contact. When I saw her again, she was still looking very good and I still liked her, so it was like falling in love all over again. I did not ‘touch’ her till we got married and after the wedding, I was too happy that I got married to her and we did not get intimate till after about two weeks. The relationship became very religious at a point and we dealt with each other in a civil way. Our relationship became more mature and I thank God for that.

Why do you believe you were destined to get married to her?

It is because if you have lost contact with somebody for so long and all of a sudden, you meet the person single, that’s not coincidental at all. It was coincidence I could have met her in a bus while travelling but somebody came to tell me about her. People thought I would not get married again but I wanted to. I had two children from previous relationships but I wanted at least three children in my life. I needed a wife to bear me children because I did not want to have children outside wedlock.

How is the relationship between you and the other two children?

We talk but they are typical American children. They don’t even feel obliged to come to my country. They call Nigeria my country. If they decide not to come, I will not fault them because there are a lot of things wrong with Nigeria and people that live in civil societies will find it difficult to survive here. I would not mind if they come to pay me a visit but with the stories they hear about terrorism, kidnapping, armed robbery, it might discourage them. So I don’t blame them if they do not come.

How was the experience working with Wole Soyinka when you were in the University of Ibadan?

He is a very strict man and western in his ways when it comes to his profession. Ironically he is a very deep rooted Yoruba man. Working with him was easy for me because he is a perfectionist. I got into trouble with him because he hates people coming late for rehearsals and when I came late, he got very angry. He would sanction anyone for lateness. I remember an occasion where we were meant to travel to Antigua for a performance. We were in Ife but I dashed down to Ibadan because I wanted to collect some money from someone. I got to the rehearsals late and he made sure that I was not part of those people that would travel with them. Eventually the trip was cancelled, so I did not feel it.

You were not angry with him for that?

No I was not. He is my father in the profession and anytime I see him, we greet each other. I admire and respect him. I saw him last year.

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